Job Discussion Forums

[Kaliax]

I'm planning on doing a TEFL stint in either Istanbul or Izmir, Turkey pretty soon. I chose Turkey for a variety of reasons - cool culture, good food, reasonably promising job market and salary, and the opportunity to travel widely in the area.

One reason I did NOT have to choose Turkey was the prospect of an active dating life there. Now look - realistically, I know that "dating" in the Western (especially American) sense doesn't really exist in most Middle Eastern cultures. But I also know that Turkey is very different from the rest of the ME, and much more acclimated in many ways to Western norms of social interaction. But can anyone give me an idea what I should expect in terms of interaction with women? From everything that I've read, gender segregation is still big there. Could anyone who's been there lately give me an idea about what I should expect?

Ack!
Blair

[stillnosheep]

Good luck dagi.

I'm sure that Turkey would be superb. A very good friend of mine visited there last November or so as part of a round the world trip and loved it so muct that the RTW's been abandoned and Turkey returned to twice already! She loved the locals (her mum found Turkish men "drop dead gorgeous"), found them friendly but not pushy (she left Athens after the cafe-creatures started fighting amonst themselves over who'd have the "privilege" of accompanying her around for the day and left Jordan "pursued by bedouin boys on camels trying to snare the single white girl in their midst" ); weather superb; scenery superb; English speakers easy to meet and travel around with; stayed everywhere from caves in the mountains to "[my] orange grove paradise by the sea".

[yaramaz]

Ah Turkey... turkeyturkeyturkey... I could tell you a lot about Turkey. It's well worth it, yes, but please do not be complacent about the men. Yes, they are less pushy than elsewhere and yes they are more friendly and charming than smarmy and slimy BUT there are still strong gender/culture rules that newcomers and even veterans are unaware of. I'm still learning the ropes. This is especially true away from Istanbul, Ankara and Izmir, though I know it can be everywhere.

Something to be aware of: many Turkish men will happily have a foreign girlfriend but they and their families may not be so keen to cement it in marriage. I've lost two bfs to arranged marriages- assoon as the parents heard they were dating a yabanci, the pressure was on to find a suitable wife.

However, that said, I seem to have found myself in a sane and mature relationship with a Turkish man and I havent had any flashing warning signals yet...

[yaramaz]

Oh, and yes, the men here are quite gorgeous (to mine eyes anyway). This is probably the western women's equivalent to the western men's east asia dating spree...

Still, be careful. Seriously. The guys can be very smooth. It messes with your western-acclimatised smarm detectors because it often slips in under the radar.

[Aramas]

A lot of men from that region view all western women as whores. They hang out with them so they can get laid until they want to settle down with a respectable local girl, but wouldn't want to take one home to mother. There's also a culture of gang rape so it's advisable to be careful.

[denise]

Well, we western gals just can't win anywhere, can we?



Destined for spinsterhood,
d

[Aramas]

[yaramaz]

Aramas, thanks for coming out of the wardrobe, as it is heartening to know that we western chicks are not loathed and reviled by all our fellow compatriots of the masculine gender. I like western men too! And Eastern. And Southern. Etc.

However, I'm not sure that I agree with your statement about there being a culture of gang rape here. I have yet to encounter it nor hear anything about it------- yes, there are incidents of abuse and rape, but I feel much safer here than I ever did in Canada or the US or UK or South africa. Turkish men might cop a feel, to be sure, but the majority of them are decent, respectful human beings, just like men everywhere. Also, they dont all think of us as whores. My circle of male friends here is respectful and intelligent and Turkish...

[Aramas]

Yaramaz - I expect you know better than I what Turkish men are like

I was generalising based on a number of incidents in Turkish and Lebanese communities here in Australia. Like all immigrant communities they tend to be stuck in a time warp and adhere to cultural values that are more consistent with the era in which their parents emigrated rather than with modern Turkey and Lebanon. I expect that those countries are much more urbane and sophisticated than they were 30 or 40 years ago. A number of friends have visted their parents' homelands and been amazed at how modern and liberal they were when compared to their conservative upbringing. I've been present on several occasions when friends have brought their WASP gf home to meet mother, and it wasn't pretty

However, when such attitudes lurk in a culture's recent history then I suspect it would be overly optimistic to assume that they no longer exist.

[dreaming_saturn]

[yaramaz]

I have very short (think Dolores of Cranberries), very dark hair, no EU-affiliated passport, and I've had no problem in finding interested men here either. It's just a matter of sorting out the ones who want a foreign fling from the ones who are genuinely interested in you. Turkish men are not the lecherous,groping, deceitful charmers that many people outside of Turkey see them as. Or rather, some are but most are just decent human beings. Again, be careful, use your judgment--- they are more charming and persistent than any other men I have known so you have to really keep your smarm-detector on. Turkish women wont make eye contact with or smile at a man they aren't interested in and trust... so when Turkish men see us smiling and making eye contact immediately they assume we are ready to jump in the sack because we have given them the approving signals. Also, once you have smiled, yes means yes, maybe means yes, and no means maybe. The best thing to do if not interested is to ignore them entirely and not acknowledge them.

Good luck. It's an interesting country to live in....

[Eijse]

...

[dagi]

And it's been interesting as well! I also have a 'Dolores-like' hair-style, but then in red....
Also I do have to agree, that I met some Turkish people who lived in Turkey and they were all more modern than the Turkish people I ever met over here in the EU. But the Turkish I met from Turkey did not really seem to have a reason to emigrate because they all had good education and good jobs. While the immigrants over here all are from 'old-fashioned' Anatolia, mostly farmers or factory workers.

In general it just looks like that my idea of Turkey being a perfectly normal country with very normal human beings was right
Guess I shouldn't listen to people who've never been there....

The last thing that comes into my mind, reading the posts, a couple of years ago two Dutch girls good gang-raped and murdered in Turkey and since then safety became a big issue when girls say they go to Turkey.

[SueH]

Not to alarm anyone, but an Amnesty International report issued on Wednesday claims 'scandalous' levels of violence against women in Turkey. I'm sure the situation varies between middle-class Istanbul and, say Anatolia, and being foreign may protect you. I thought some here might be interested.


I haven't got the url, but I imagine it will be on the Amnesty web site.

[ls650]