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Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
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 Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject: Dress Codes Male and Female |
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I know I didn't specify countries when I labeled this post but that was so that other views from other countries could be inputted.
I know that Saudi Arabia has the white thobe and red schma with black igah as their national dress but I see it as their national dress and I personally don't think expats should go wild over it. Maybe I'm not zealous religiously or even if I were I would respect their national dress and not over do it and wear it everyday at work as if I were one of them. I am not and have no desire to be one of them either religiously or culturally. There is some professionalism that my main employer (the universities) expects from me and if I am coming here to do a multitude of Umrahs and my (once every 5 years) Hajj and get paid for doing it while I work here then I would ask myself about the reason why I'm also dressing up like them. If I'm going to wear their national dress then I would do it properly and wear it full dress and not some Islamic version that makes me look like some sort of religious fanatic.
I can't even wear jeans or t-shirts to work but I can wear just a thobe and no other part of the national dress. I feel a little bit of animosity when I see this dress and mind set of some "TEACHERS" and get pulled aside and reminded about a dress code at work when I wear my Nikes. I know some other teachers who are not bad Muslims (this means they think in the real world) and have never seen them wear just the white thobe to work. I am here to teach and not to tell my students and fellow colleagues that I'm possibly a devout Muslim.
Then again maybe I'm expecting too much from a country that mixes religion into every facet of life here. If we are near the end of the world I really hope it comes sooner than later because this way at least these religious dress codes will be over with.
Just a thought.
Grendal
ps. I will not respond to any fanatical response to this post
Last edited by Grendal on Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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AnneCO
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 53
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Grendal, the throbes look practical given the weather at least in comparison to a western suit. I hadn't thought of the religious statement one might be making when wearing the national dress. I'd consider doing the whole face cover thing just for the anonymity although I've been told that Saudis can still tell that you are a westerner even fully covered.
I was told that women wear ankle length or longer skirts in the universities. Anyone know if shirts need to have collars for women.
Grendal, perhaps you just wanted to discuss dress code for men. I did not mean to highjack your thread into feminine attire if that was your intent. |
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fledex
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Never could get into a thobe. Can't imagine trying to piss while wearing one.  |
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posh
Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 430
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Often think about getting a thobe/ghutra outfit complete with sunglasses and joke shop moustache then walking into my local pub back in England. Reaction? They'd beat me up. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| The Sunna specifies that a male shouild squat while urinating. So the thobe makes sense ! |
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KME0050
Joined: 02 Jun 2010
Posts: 87
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| AnneCO wrote: |
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I was told that women wear ankle length or longer skirts in the universities. Anyone know if shirts need to have collars for women.
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Anne--
Here's what was normal attire for teachers in the very conservative city where I taught:
--floor-length skirts (nothing too form-fitting, and definitely no slits)
--modest shirts, blouses or tops with sleeves at least to the elbow, and definitely no plunging necklines. Collars weren't required.
--in general, the expectation was that teachers would look polished and professional--nothing too casual, shabby, or wrinkled. Many teachers wore suits.
(I would suggest waiting until you get to KSA to buy long skirts as they are EVERYWHERE and in great abundance--in every style, fabric, and size and priced very reasonably.)
Indian, Pakistani, and Bangladeshi teachers could wear saris or salwar kameez (long tunics with loose pants), but no one else could wear pants of any sort. (I know of one teacher who wore a very light-weight sari and was reported to the Dean by one of her students because the student said she "could see through it.")
What I found rather surprising and pretty incongruous with the place was how some of the students dressed. There were some serious hoochi mamas on my campus and I don't know how they got away with it. Some wore stilettos, skin-tight skirts that that they could barely climb the stairs in, too-small low-cut t-shirts that they were falling out of, and gobs and gobs of makeup.
Also interesting was how closely the girls' styles resembled those of girls their age in the West. If a Western girl would wear low-slung, khaki cargo pants with a big wide belt and a t-shirt, the Saudi girls would wear a low-slung khaki skirt with cargo-style pockets all over it, a big wide belt and a t-shirt.
I even had one student who did a Saudi version of a biker chick : )
She wore a tight black leather skirt, a matching vest, boots, a handkerchief-style bandana holding back her bleach blond hair (!) with orange streaks, and dark sunglasses. No one who saw this girl walking out of the school with her black abayaa, hijab, and niqab would have CLUE as to what was going on underneath . . .
[/list] |
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posh
Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 430
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: |
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[quote="KME0050"]
| AnneCO wrote: |
Some wore stilettos, skin-tight skirts that that they could barely climb the stairs in, too-small low-cut t-shirts that they were falling out of, and gobs and gobs of makeup.
I even had one student who did a Saudi version of a biker chick : )
She wore a tight black leather skirt, a matching vest, boots, a handkerchief-style bandana holding back her bleach blond hair (!) with orange streaks, and dark sunglasses. |
Damn! I'd like to be you for a week! (Nb. Am about to go on vacation and have not left KSA for 3 months).
Have noticed from Arab TV that the women really plaster the make-up on. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| On flights from London to Jeddah I used to marvel at the transformation during the flight. Girls who had boarded looking like models from "Vogue" would transform themselves into abaya-ed enigmas in the middle of the flight. |
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fledex
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| The Sunna specifies that a male shouild squat while urinating. So the thobe makes sense ! |
Sure, if you're a woman. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, now you try to squat and urinate while wearing a pair of Levis ! |
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AnneCO
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 53
Location: US
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| KME0050 wrote: |
| AnneCO wrote: |
.
I was told that women wear ankle length or longer skirts in the universities. Anyone know if shirts need to have collars for women.
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Anne--
Here's what was normal attire for teachers in the very conservative city where I taught:
--floor-length skirts (nothing too form-fitting, and definitely no slits)
--modest shirts, blouses or tops with sleeves at least to the elbow, and definitely no plunging necklines. Collars weren't required.
--in general, the expectation was that teachers would look polished and professional--nothing too casual, shabby, or wrinkled. Many teachers wore suits.
(I would suggest waiting until you get to KSA to buy long skirts as they are EVERYWHERE and in great abundance--in every style, fabric, and size and priced very reasonably.)
Indian, Pakistani, and Bangladeshi teachers could wear saris or salwar kameez (long tunics with loose pants), but no one else could wear pants of any sort. (I know of one teacher who wore a very light-weight sari and was reported to the Dean by one of her students because the student said she "could see through it.")
What I found rather surprising and pretty incongruous with the place was how some of the students dressed. There were some serious hoochi mamas on my campus and I don't know how they got away with it. Some wore stilettos, skin-tight skirts that that they could barely climb the stairs in, too-small low-cut t-shirts that they were falling out of, and gobs and gobs of makeup.
Also interesting was how closely the girls' styles resembled those of girls their age in the West. If a Western girl would wear low-slung, khaki cargo pants with a big wide belt and a t-shirt, the Saudi girls would wear a low-slung khaki skirt with cargo-style pockets all over it, a big wide belt and a t-shirt.
I even had one student who did a Saudi version of a biker chick : )
She wore a tight black leather skirt, a matching vest, boots, a handkerchief-style bandana holding back her bleach blond hair (!) with orange streaks, and dark sunglasses. No one who saw this girl walking out of the school with her black abayaa, hijab, and niqab would have CLUE as to what was going on underneath . . .
[/list] |
Thanks KME. I hadn't found a description of what women wore within the class. I knew that women didn't have to wear abayas. I remember someone (male) saying women teachers could wear whatever was appropriate for feminine eyes. Of course he couldn't detail what was appropriate and I speculated it was different than the west so thanks for filling in. I love the Saudi incongruities. |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| fledex wrote: |
| scot47 wrote: |
| The Sunna specifies that a male shouild squat while urinating. So the thobe makes sense ! |
Sure, if you're a woman. |
Not to de-rail this thread...but Scott is right...and it actually makes total sense in this culture...
In an emergency, you could infact urniate discreetly in a public place and never expose any private part while wearing a thobe
Of course only the most experienced thobe wearer could manage it without drawing attention to himself, not to mention...falling over |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| AnneCO wrote: |
| I was told that women wear ankle length or longer skirts in the universities. Anyone know if shirts need to have collars for women. |
Women's dress was discussed in the following thread, Professional Attire for Women, before going off-topic: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=92682 |
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Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| The Sunna specifies that a male shouild squat while urinating. So the thobe makes sense ! |
Again.... "no comment" on the sunna. I used the squatter holes while in the Turkish army and that was in full battle dress.
G |
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al-Californian
Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: Wha? Huh? |
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| Grendal wrote: |
I know I didn't specify countries when I labeled this post but that was so that other views from other countries could be inputted.
I know that Saudi Arabia has the white thobe and red schma with black igah as their national dress but I see it as their national dress and I personally don't think expats should go wild over it. Maybe I'm not zealous religiously or even if I were I would respect their national dress and not over do it and wear it everyday at work as if I were one of them. I am not and have no desire to be one of them either religiously or culturally. There is some professionalism that my main employer (the universities) expects from me and if I am coming here to do a multitude of Umrahs and my (once every 5 years) Hajj and get paid for doing it while I work here then I would ask myself about the reason why I'm also dressing up like them. If I'm going to wear their national dress then I would do it properly and wear it full dress and not some Islamic version that makes me look like some sort of religious fanatic.
I can't even wear jeans or t-shirts to work but I can wear just a thobe and no other part of the national dress. I feel a little bit of animosity when I see this dress and mind set of some "TEACHERS" and get pulled aside and reminded about a dress code at work when I wear my Nikes. I know some other teachers who are not bad Muslims (this means they think in the real world) and have never seen them wear just the white thobe to work. I am here to teach and not to tell my students and fellow colleagues that I'm possibly a devout Muslim.
Then again maybe I'm expecting too much from a country that mixes religion into every facet of life here. If we are near the end of the world I really hope it comes sooner than later because this way at least these religious dress codes will be over with.
Just a thought.
Grendal
ps. I will not respond to any fanatical response to this post |
So, um, Grendal, what have you decided to do? Styling and profiling with the thobe or insurance salesman attire? |
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