Job Discussion Forums

[boomerexpat]

I can see some merit to both perspectives. Why get worked up over a contract when it has no bite. Why sign something that sets you up to get the shaft.

One of the side effects of being 58 - besides some unwanted, but hard earned, wrinkles and gray hair - is I've witnessed the wide range of ways that people can screw each other over. Or, as Samuel Johnson noted how he never "ceased to be amazed by man's propensity to stoop to meet the situation."

From my own bias, I can't see how someone would sign something that doesn't cap their hours but commits them to a wide range of activities without additional pay. Combine that with onerous penalties and I can't help but see a red flag waving in front of me.

At the very least, it seems like the two parties would want to clarify things in the beginning so that there aren't two conflicting perspectives. If I ignore all the things in here, why not ignore their putting in 50 hours of teaching, for example, if I knew others weren't teaching that amount of hours?

The more I think about this, the more it seems analogous to a contract with a building contractor. What is in the contract and what the contractor does are usually two different things for a wide range of reasons.

However, even if that contractor was referred to me by people I trusted, I would still want to have in writing: what exactly he was building, how he was building it, how long it would take and what it would cost.

[Denim-Maniac]

Caution is of course a good thing, but too much can be counter-productive. I secured my first paid position in 2006, and I was lucky enough to know the place I would be working as I was volunteering in the same town. I secured my job and a start date, and had 3 months at home before the job started.

In those three months at home, I joined Dave's (at that time I was a member signed up under my real name) and posted questions, queries and read lots of threads. Partly due to the advice I read, partly due to nerves, I arrived in China suspicious of everything with my employer, questioning everything asked of me by colleagues and the FAO, and tried to second guess everything. On reflection, this actually made the first 6 months of that job far harder than it needed to be. Another teacher who started at the same time as me adopted the same attitude too (it was also his first job, maybe we fed off each other regarding attitude) and kept it going for 18 months meaning a lot of his time there was full of distrust...and in the end the employer wouldnt renew his contract as he was more trouble than he was worth.

I sometimes think, actually...almost always think, we make demands of our Chinese employers and their contracts that we wouldnt dream of at home. How many people accept a job in the UK just on a phone call? Or a letter confirming the appointment. I've never had a full contract of employment in my hand prior to accepting a job at home. And in the UK all the little clauses are in the company handbook...quite often Ive never actually seen the company handbook! And Ive certainly never asked for my contract to be re-written to exclude clauses in said handbook...and Id suggest very few people ever do.

As I write this I am recalling an experience I had whilst working in a sales role for a hair cosmetics company. On my first day, my boss suggested at lunchtime that I accompany him to London and attend a meeting at the academy in London, of course with it being the first day, I accepted the invite, went to London, didnt have any dinner, and got home at 11.30pm on my first day after having gone to work at 8.30am.

I worked for that company for four years, and overall quite enjoyed it. I dont remember seeing their company handbook, or seeing a full contract of employment before I started, just had a letter and word of mouth confirming the offer.

If that was a job in China, imagine the outrage and advice I would get. Being asked to attend a meeting, without being given any notice, and not getting extra pay ... serious red flags for China right? But we do that every day in our jobs elsewhere....

In terms of EFL - I have worked 3 paid contracts in China, and found my bosses to be amongst the best employers I've ever had. Fair and transparent.

I am currently working my 5th season in the UK with a German owned and operated student organisation, and I find them to be more than fair and generous too, and even though my work is seasonal and temporary, they still invite me to join functions and events which makes me feel valued. Again, their actions have often been better than my employers pre-EFL.

The only bad experience Ive had in EFL was with with an English couple who operated a summer school franchise, but I only worked for them for two or three weeks. Trusting non-English bosses seems to be the way forward for me

Next time I apply for a job in the UK Ill ask the interviewer if I can get email addy's of some current employees and contact them for opinions and advice before I make a decision about the job. Cant see that would go down at all well!

[Opiate]

[boomerexpat]

well, diff world views. in the US I never signed a contract that opened me up to liability of 10x my salary for vague breaches of contract and don't plan to do it in China either. You are welcomed to do it in any country you so desire.

In the US I was making 6 figure USD salary and as a result didn't get to wrapped up about overtime. if I was making the type of salary EFL teachers are, I would have been far more concerned.