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fledex
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 342
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 Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:33 am Post subject: Re: ICEAT is garbage. Bokonon, you have been warned. |
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| ositolector wrote: |
| BlueRainbow wrote: |
A million thanks for making me laugh until I cried when I read your post!!!!!!!!!
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Me too.
This guy sounds like me 2 years ago. I have survived 2 years of KSA and am pleased to be out of it. The first was with ICEAT (aka ICEEL) and the second with a more staid employer which was just a bit better. I've held my tongue on this miserable company for too long -- and have been relieved when I've read of others who've pulled their card -- for the main reason that it's depressing to relive my awful experiences and also because one needs to always Keep Moving Forward. But then I read of someone as naive as this bokonon guy who is just going to face plant over there and thus feel like I've been tapped to say something.
ICEAT formerly ICEEL is a maggoty shell of a company run by a couple of amateur business men who have no idea how to manage contractors and who only want to take their cut of your hours without doing their job as sponsors. In all your dealings with them you will never feel secure that their answers are the truth. Your misgivings in dealing with them will not be misplaced.
Sometimes when you read these forums you get to wonder how much of the problem is the poster himself -- you think, as I did, hey I'll just go over there, keep my head down, and save my money. I've lived in the 3rd world, I've been camping, I've lived with 8 brothers, etc etc, I can handle this. No you can't because doing the simplest things will be a stressful hassle either because of ICEAT or KSA.(I was going to lump in the university but actually for many - those who know how to teach and manage Saudi students - the work portion of the day is the best part of the day- not perfect but manageable.)
Like what? Well, your pay. A guy will show up with a bagful of cash on an given day --- don't miss hearing about it via the txt sent to random people: He'll count it out and you'll sign for it. If it's wrong or short, you'll be leaving messages for weeks to sort it out. You may have to go to their offices since you can't get an answer, purposefully rented in an area far from the u and impossible to find without a guide or detailed map. Then you will have to divine who really has the authority -- and it isn't who you think OR the PM ( Arab guy with a girls first name) -- to fix it. OK now you got your money but you can't have an account cuz you're on a visit visa so you'll have to cajole or bribe someone to help you wire it out.
WHile you're there you may have brought along some medical receipts for a respiratory infection you had ---- and which everyone gets (some chronically)-- and fight to get reimbursed. There is NO medical. THey can't insure you because you aren't legally working and are not a resident. So they promise to reimburse but do so late or never. There was one guy, very well liked by admin and staff who got a serious eye infection which required surgery. They were going to just fire him and send him back rather than own up to the responsibility.! Or they said he could sign a release, go blind in the eye, and keep working. In the end, they paid -- upon pressure from some dean types at the U who had his back. The famous Wasta. These are the type of garbage people you will be working with at ICEAT.
If you have any problems at the U, ICEAT will not get involved in any way. Unlike Bell or EdEx - not to praise them btw - ICEAT has no on-campus presence and they do not participate in the on-campus management of contractors. Problems what problems? It is not talked about enough on these boards but it is very very common to be disciplined -- and even fired --in Saudi U's for simple infractions or accusations. One guy I personally knew of was so fired, and ICEAT would not pay for his flight out, the contract be damned. When he refused to go without his pay and his ticket , they tried to scare him saying that they could not be responsible for his safety any longer and had blackhearts txt and call him with threats. Then they finally got him a ticket ---- to London -- (he was from the USA) saying well, we promised you a ticket out of the country....
And on and on. I could type all day and not run out. It's always like that for everything with these people. You will not get your vacation pay -- and you will agonize if, how, when you will get your last check. And they may say, you'll get it when your return or..... do you get the picture??
ICEAT is run by garbage people and that's just how they will treat you.
I hope this helps someone somewhere. |
 ICEAT or EDEX? Same. |
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desert_traveller
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:19 am Post subject: |
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OK, why don't we just settle this once and for all?
No recruiters, no contractors, no visitor visa. Khalas. |
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hashim99uk
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 47
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| desert_traveller wrote: |
OK, why don't we just settle this once and for all?
No recruiters, no contractors, no visitor visa. Khalas. |
I think you are deciding from comfortable background with no commitments!
Most of teachers do not like a maze or headache of Saudi regulations, routines , environment or even lifestyle. I belong to the Middle East but I live more comfortably and happily in Egypt, Tunisia, Dubai, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon....etc. But the need makes people to work and live in Saudi Arabia. They need money to meet their commitments, they are supporting families, paying mortgages, helping friends or love ones... these make people to stand the Saudi life and situation. When we decide we have to see the reasons not just ourselves. Yes I agree with you, enough, but with young or single teacher who has no commitments and free to fly and live anywhere, or to enjoy himself. Saudi Arabia not for everybody, but for serious, patient and hardworing people. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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hashim99uk
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 47
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you John
Honestly I relied on what Mr.Omar of IH told me about the decent salary, accommodation and Iqama. Despite I got job offers from some recruiters now but all are bringing teachers on Visit visa. |
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lcanupp1964
Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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In order for a person to be considered a reliable source of information (especially if that person is posting on a website for ESL teachers) that person should write well. I�m not the grammar police. I have made the occasional typo on this site, but hashim99uk has made many mistakes in his postings that go way beyond simple typos. I agree with John and feel that he is a shill for the company. He can�t be an instructor of English (even if it�s �just� ESL). I teach level four (CEF level �B2�) students that can write more effectively than hashim99uk. If he is an English teacher (he wrote that he has had some job offers), it is no wonder that ESL teachers get such a bad reputation within the teaching profession. I think it�s fitting to paraphrase an old joke by Woody Allen: �For those who can�t do, teach. For those who can�t teach, teach ESL�.    |
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hashim99uk
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 47
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| lcanupp1964 wrote: |
| In order for a person to be considered a reliable source of information (especially if that person is posting on a website for ESL teachers) that person should write well. I�m not the grammar police. I have made the occasional typo on this site, but hashim99uk has made many mistakes in his postings that go way beyond simple typos. I agree with John and feel that he is a shill for the company. He can�t be an instructor of English (even if it�s �just� ESL). I teach level four (CEF level �B2�) students that can write more effectively than hashim99uk. If he is an English teacher (he wrote that he has had some job offers), it is no wonder that ESL teachers get such a bad reputation within the teaching profession. I think it�s fitting to paraphrase an old joke by Woody Allen: �For those who can�t do, teach. For those who can�t teach, teach ESL�. |
Fortunately, I am not an English teacher. My major is ( management ), I have MBA. but taught English previously for 1 year and promised not to teach again!! IH and other recruiters contacted me for teaching management not English. I have noticed that lots of English teachers are abnormal, sick and not belong to any place. They always move and escape which means they have mental problems! Fly from Saudi Arabia to China in 2 days then South East Asia in one week!! as they are fugitives or run from a dragon!! just run!!no loyalty!! they always miserable anywhere! feel unsafe everywhere! dislike their jobs!! and above that, they hate their home countries!! really sick!!and Cheap. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Dear hashim99uk,
"Fortunately, I am not an English teacher. . . . I have noticed that lots of English teachers are abnormal, sick and not belong to any place. They always move and escape which means they have mental problems! Fly from Saudi Arabia to China in 2 days then South East Asia in one week!! as they are fugitives or run from a dragon!! just run!!no loyalty!! they always miserable anywhere! feel unsafe everywhere! dislike their jobs!! and above that, they hate their home countries!!"
I LOVE it
Well, you've got us profiled spot on. Still, I have to admit that I have known some who aren't miserable, don't feel unsafe everywhere, and really like both their jobs and their their home countries.
A few are even not cheap, and (though you'll probably have trouble believing it) are relatively sane.
But heck, I've only known hundreds - probably a couple of thousand, really - in my thirty-five years of teaching, and I'm sure you must have made your conclusions from a much larger sampling.
Regards,
John |
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lcanupp1964
Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Wow. You are just proving my point hashim99uk.
Crazy? Me? 
Yea, I'm a little crazy. But...
Please re-read you last posting. Sounds a little bit like a ranting loon. You have opinions � I�ll give you that. Misguided and misinformed, but yes, you wrote many big words in English. Good job!
Peace Be On To You My Brother!!!
P.S. Maybe you can fret over things on a management centric job discussion forum/website and not use this one.
P.S.S. BTW, thanks for this very entertaining distraction. I was very bored until I started to read this post. I can�t wait to read what you are going to �write� next. |
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lcanupp1964
Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:37 am Post subject: |
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I hope it doesn't seem like I'm picking on hashim99uk, but I was reading over all of his past postings (yes, I'm that bored) and I would like to paste some his postings. I tried hard not to take anything out of context:
One:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=852298&highlight=#852298
I always read the negative comments from negative people like Scot47, Never Ceased to be amazed/ and Veiledsentiments..they are always negative and dissapoint teachers from getting any job in KSA.
Two:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=923183&highlight=#923183
I just left KSU-PY and I am happy to leave them despite my salary was good. The atmosphere is totally disappointing, the teachers are waiting for the handscan in the morning and afternoon ! as the prisoners of Guantanamobay !! my supervisor asked me to stop teaching my group, when asked him why ? he replied; it is from the top ! the dean ! then learned that the students have a lot of power and when they complain, the dean responds immediately !! regerdless of the teacher ! the teacher is just servant ! as Indian or Bengali driver or maid ! no respect ! just warn and fire ! the deanship is very bad and teach students how to be arrogant ! just ask to change the teacher ! �as slaves market in the middle ages ! the nasty side is the treatment, how the deanship deals with the teacher!! it is in the hand of students ! also every teacher must be observed by a supervisor twice a year, every semester , to be qualified for renewal ! or dismissal ! No holidays, in 2010 last year, �they made it more stressful and worse by depriving teachers from holidays ! their philosophy is: if a teacher leaves we will get tens instead ! arrogant !
[ I think I understand why the dean asked him to stop teaching, don�t you? ]
Three:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=668908&highlight=#668908
This is our suffering here, who signed the contract with ( M.Trading,Tulbah ) this compnay based in Al-Khobar. Please , beware of them , donot do our mistakes, do not listen to their promises. When I was in the UK, They promised me to get paid on time !!!
Four:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=664942&highlight=#664942
Please donot listen to the negative people. I am asking them why saty in KSA despite you are suffering and describe anything in SA as negative and bad !!
Five:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=664429&highlight=#664429
Life is not real in the West, material and we have to pay only. we learn from the west that the life has one face, how to pay !! headache and psychological problems. We learn how to ratify our needs, how our children go to the wrong sides and how wives to be independent !! in the name of freedom and democracy !! Wild west !
Six:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=664097&highlight=#664097
� donot come !! why hesitated, come on, donot listen to the negative people like Brasscat!
I am happy now with the teaching staff, most of them from US,UK,canada and NZ, they are clean, honest,sraight and helpful, except Brasscat who was teaching here and got fired last year!! The department now is pure! Donot be hesitated, come and live it is a rich and productive experience. The school located on the ring road, and the accommodation is very good in Al-MASHAR just down the mountains and well-protected by police. People are friendly and respect the foreigners. Many holidays, just relax ! You can travel to Jeddah, Riyadh, dammam, Al-Khobar in SA, Sharm Al-Shaikh in Egypt is just 10 hours by car from Hail ! You can save money easily in Hail. Good luck and hope to see you here so soon.
_____________________________________________________________
What we have here is a tall, cool refreshing glass of irony with a splash of contradiction. No, Hashim. The second longest river in the world is not spelled �denial�.
Good luck in figuring out life buddy!  |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:38 am Post subject: |
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If hashim99 is NOT an English teacher, why is her here on an ESL Forum ?
Maybe he has some message to get over ? Or is he trying to practise his English so he can pass FCE ?
Last edited by scot47 on Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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desert_traveller
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| The real issue with Hashim's post is that on many counts and in many cases he is right. He put it a bit bluntly, and perhaps his English also plays a part in his messages coming across a bit rough, but it is unquestionable that the international EFL business is full of runaways with a CELTA and a backpack full of faded T-shirts and torn jeans, sometimes an advanced addiction problem, no direction in life, no family and no friends. It is wrong to say that all or most EFL teachers are like that, or that all of them are like that to some extent, but the proportion of people with these characteristics is probably a lot higher than in many other professions. And, TEFL is not even a 'profession' as such, it's more like, a vocation or occupation, or, plainly, work. I wouldn't call anyone with a CELTA a professional, unless on the basis of other qualifications. But hey, there is nothing wrong with those people, and Hashim, if he doesn't like them, can avoid them, but they certainly are there all over the place. |
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fledex
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| As far as Edex goes, what Hashim says seems to be more true of the non-Saudi administration and management, not so much the teachers. Though, Edex is desperate enough now that they may be recruiting from the prisons and half-way houses. |
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Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| fledex wrote: |
| As far as Edex goes, what Hashim says seems to be more true of the non-Saudi administration and management, not so much the teachers. Though, Edex is desperate enough now that they may be recruiting from the prisons and half-way houses. |
How will these teachers be able to report to their parole officers from Saudi Arabia? Could some of them also be escaped convicts?
Grendal |
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Betrayer of Hope
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 72
Location: in a dark place
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:01 am Post subject: Working hours |
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| I heard that ICEAT made their teachers work double shift at KSU during the month of Ramadan. I was told that teachers worked during the day for a few hours, and later came back to work from 9pm - 1am. Can anyone else confirm this? |
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