Job Discussion Forums

dogUNLEASHED · Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 42

My guess is people who are tired of shady private schools are taking some of the university jobs.

I worked for a Wonderland in South Korea over the past year and the management there routinely mishandled money issues. I enjoyed teaching the kids, who were a total blast. However, Wonderland would take money out of my pay to cover utilities, but my utilities would routinely get shut off for weeks at a time because of nonpayment. I demanded for my airfare to be paid upfront and they paid it. A co-worker didn't and he didn't get his airfare to Korea reimbursed depite finishing his contract.

Now, I'm looking for a job in China, since I would like to experience living in China. I did an interview with a private school in Heilongjiang and its location changed to Liaoning by the second time I talked with them. Then I did an interview with a school in Wuxi called Global Boya. Its ad said "shared housing" which raised a red flag. During the interview, they said the housing would be separate, but they sent me a contract stating 200 RMB per day, with 11.5 hour days, Monday through Sunday.

To me, a public university gig is starting to look better and better even if the pay is lower. After a year of dealing with flim flam artists, I imagine signing on at a university would be less risky.

rogerwilco · Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 1549

Denim-Maniac · Joined: 31 Jan 2012 Posts: 1238

Brian Hugh · Joined: 07 Jan 2012 Posts: 140 Location: China

DM it doesn't bode well for you either. Five students paying 17 rmb means that the most your boss can give you 85 rmb or about 11 dollars an hour. Wouldn't you be better off flipping hamburgers back home?
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING PEOPLE TELL YOU IN CHINA

Denim-Maniac · Joined: 31 Jan 2012 Posts: 1238

Brian - Ive been in and out of China since 2006, I know what to believe, and what not to.

I only raise the math issue as it has been previously stated that we are the 'cash cows' our bosses and employers use to make themselves rich, with the division of income being wildly disproportionate to the income we generate. Of course, that does happen in some places, but not all. Some employers (just as they are everywhere in the world) are fair and pay what the market supports.

I posted earlier in the thread that while the business model may look flawed, we are the largest training centre in the area, with up to 250 students in full time study during the peak months, and about 120 here now. We celebrated our tenth anniversary last year so it would appear to be sustainable.

Flipping hamburgers back home holds a lot less appeal sir, and if not a fair comparision. What is a fair comparison is EFL work in the UK, which I will be returning for very shortly. Those who have done EFL work elsewhere in the world can also make fair comparisons, and they often make China look good.

I will earn around 120 RMB per hour in the UK. Of course this is subject to tax and National Insurance, and I am not provided with anything like the benefits that are included here: Free accomodation and utilities; subsidised food; travel bonus/contract completion bonus and I also dont get holiday pay (circumvented by laws regarding casual/temporary work). It goes without saying this is in a country where the cost of living is 5 - 10 times higher than it is here in China.

Look at TEFL work in the EU. I did accept a job in Poland in 2010, but had to decline at the last minute as the experience it offered wasnt enough to cope with 22 hours a week at less than 4000 RMB per month. (with no flight bonus and utilities either).

I am not claiming my employer is the best in China. But he is fair. I chose to return to this job and its low salary for a variety of reasons and I will make the same choice again. I do have experience in other EFL markets, and whilst China isnt always the strongest one, its certainly not the weakest and worst either.

Of course everyone should carefully research their positions before accepting them, and consider hours/type of teaching/school reputation and location carefully. For some people 12k (or more) a month, commuting an hour a day in SZ working evenings and weekends with children is a good fit, and for others life in a quiet location earning a third of the money for half the hours during weekdays with adults two minutes from your doorstep is a better bet. I belong to the latter group as you may guess.

therock · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1266 Location: China

Just out of interest, since you are working on short term contracts, does your school get you the proper Z visa / residence permit or are you working on an F visa? I ask because it seems like a hassle to get all the documents needed for you to work on the proper visa just for a short time.

ecubyrd94 · Joined: 25 Aug 2011 Posts: 77

Denim-Maniac · Joined: 31 Jan 2012 Posts: 1238

@ therock - yes, I came to China with a Z which was duly converted to an RP. This contract was for 8 months, and I suppose 8 months with a known quantity (me) is more cost effective than 12 months with an unknown quantity. This was my second contract here. We have an older couple who come for 6 months each year and as far as I know, the have legit visas too. I think their next trip will be their 8th.

ecubyrd - Hmmmm, I have become a CELTA-snob. Damn! Never my intention Very Happy

dharma86 · Joined: 05 May 2009 Posts: 187 Location: Southside baby!

I started with 4000 three years ago.

Back then it was ok, I was fresh from the west everything was so "cheap and amazing".

When you get to know China better, and know what you like and want, this salary really restrains you.

So mainly, I would say the people who take it are newbies and people who know exactly what they want. (The two extremes of the spectrum).

DirtGuy · Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 529

This post is one of the best I've read for the following reason:

I have been interviewing for the higher-paying jobs at private schools (14,000 and up) and getting firm offers. Funny thing is that after I work out all the extra work they want me to do as well as some seriously long hours, the pay is not all that great. I have several offers pending and I need to make a decision soon.

However -----

A recruiter just submitted my application to a uni in Anyang (not my first choice of where I want to work) and they offer 5,000, totally free and furnished housing, great airfare allowance plus some other perks for 18 teaching hours per week. If I do just an average of 10 hours per week of privates at 150/hour, I more than double my salary. This allows me to pay all my bills in the US plus put money into savings. Given that I'm your basic Type A workaholic, I hope to do more than 10 hours per week.

Does this make sense or am I missing something?

Thanks.

DirtGuy

GeminiTiger · Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:06 am Post subject:

Compare a 11,000 RMB private school to a 4,000 RMB University.

4000 rmb
A job that pays 4000 RMB plus housing, internet and maybe electric, water, gas and is on campus working 20 hours a week (16+prep)

11000 rmb
Compared to a job that pays 11,000.

Working 40 hours a week - include commute and office hours.
* (Working twice as many hours, probably more, divide salary in half)
No paid housing, electric, internet.
* (Subtract 3000)
Now factor in the private schools dancing monkey multiplier, working nights and weekends and everything else.

For 8000 (after housing costs) your working more than twice as many hours, what's the difference? Not much.

Denim-Maniac · Joined: 31 Jan 2012 Posts: 1238

My job has some similarities.

15 hours a week. No weekends or evenings. No office hours. Free housing, free electric and water, free internet. From my front door to my employer? Less than 3 minutes walking, so no commute time to factor in!

Cheap ex-pat scene. 600 ml beers for 8 RMB in a bar. 600 ml beers in a funky rooftop hip-hop bar 10 RMB. Burger and beer meal deals from 25 RMB in an ex-pat hangout. Curries, Mexican and German bratwurst is readily available without spending money on taxi fares...its all in walking distance!

And the work? Adult students, average of 6 per class, grouped by ability. Supportive, fair, honest and upfront employers. Beats a Uni hands down IMO. I find it very hard to follow all the advice from here and elsewhere suggesting I should take work somewhere else and experience all the disadvantages for a high headline salary that actually works out as a bad deal when you work it out.

MisterButtkins · Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Posts: 1221

EHh I kind of agree with the last couple of posters. For those of you who want to hate, here are the details of my contract for next year:

16 hours a week
5100/month, paid all 12 months of the year (I only work for eight)
free 2 bedroom furnished apartment
free internet, utilities
10k 'airfare' (actually just a 10k cash bonus. I don't even have to buy a ticket)
health insurance

Oh, and I work like 100 meters from my apartment, so my commute consists of a 3-minute walk. Go ahead and hate all you want. I don't care. 5100 is plenty of cash for what I need, and it's a job I like. If I need more money, I can take private lessons for 200/hour or do freelance work online.

DirtGuy · Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 529

Thanks for all the information and working for a uni is how I'm directing all my efforts.

Got a contract for a uni in Harbin and 3 things bother me:

1. Only accidental insurance, not comprehensive medical insurance. This bothers me. Should I be concerned?

2. The breach of contract clause calls for me to pay a penalty ranging from $800 to $3,000 US. Not that I'm planning to break the contract or anything but this sounds a bit outrageous.

3. Is it normal at a uni to pay a security deposit as well as gas? The security deposit is 1,000 and paying for gas (I'm assuming this means heat.) in Harbin could get expensive, no?

Looking forward to your replies.

DirtGuy