Job Discussion Forums

[Qaaolchoura]

[fledex]

[johnslat]

Dear fledex,

Well, I did a little research:

2 India 12.16 (percentage of English speakers) 1,030,000,000 (eligible population) 125,226,449 (total English speakers) 226,449 (as first language) 125,000,000 (as additional language).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population

So, while you think this "If they are from India and hold at least a BA equivalent and CELTA or TEFL certificate, or (more likely) an MA or PhD in English, I would say all of them are native speakers of English."

That may not be how most employers would see it.

I'm sorry you had such poor Western colleagues at EdEx - and I certainly don't want to get into another NS versus NNS debate, which is useless and silly since such judgments have to be made on an individual basis - but your argument (i.e. that NS/NNS from India are both better teachers and much more economical) is belied by the fact that there are still so many employers in Saudi who advertise for NS teachers.

Now, you did write this:

"No, they are required to have a certain number of us, and these edicts are coming down from various princes who are told what to do by the companies piping in the money for oil."


which I find very hard to believe. Do you have anything to back up that claim, any documentation, any citations? Or is it simply your own idea?

Regards,
John

[fledex]

John,

I didn't say I had poor colleagues at Edex, just that the colleagues from the subcontinent were far more qualified and better teachers. They were professional professors with many years experience and generally PhD holders or working on such. They were paid lower wages than the teachers from Western countries who may have had as little as no prior teaching experience, a BA in any field, and a TEFL or CELTA certificate.

As to the reason they want Western teachers in Saudi for higher prices, it doesn't require much research. As I said before, the US State Department and British Council make no bones about it. I have been told by people working with them, including an Ambassador, that they regard having us in these countries as a matter of "national security." Look at all the recent postings for jobs in Myamar, why do you think that has happened all of a sudden? The State Dept. was hiring for Myamar three years ago, now it has been turned over to private contractors.

I wouldn't regard the Indians who speak another language other than English or who have English as the second language as non-native speakers. Although, most educated Indians speak at least two languages, most of the higher education is conducted in English with a mix of other languages. No need to debate what is native or non-native, there are plenty of these English teachers in India to staff the world.

[johnslat]

Dear fledex,

"If you have doubts about why they are hiring Westerners, have you worked with the ECA from the US State Dept. or British Council from the UK? They make no bones about their reasons for promoting English language learning or why they want countries to take in teachers from their countries. I remember one former US Ambassador in Cairo preaching to us the importance we play for "National Security". We are being hired in Saudi because these people and the money want us there to spread the hegemony that has helped them so well in the West."

Umm, sounds like a conspiracy to me. If it's just the language they want taught, well then, it wouldn't matter where the English teachers came from. So are you saying that the Western EFL teachers in Saudi are promoting a "Western agenda" there? Strange - because most of the Western EFL teachers I knew there were, if anything, more anti-Western than the Saudis .

I know that during the reign of Dubya, I was not what could be called an advocate for any "Western hegemonic agenda."

Were you promoting Western hegemony over there?

Perhaps we should open this up to all the posters. Will all of you who are/were promoting Western imperialism in Saudi please 'fess up?

Regards,
John

[cmp45]