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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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 Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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In China, it seems like students never want to make sentences, at best they will say a word and then assume that is a conversation.
A: What did you do yesterday?
B: Book
A: You read a book?
B: Yea
A: That's, "I read a book"
B: Yea (like they already knew that but have no motivation to actually say it)
A: Ok, so, now you try. Please say the sentence, "I read a book".
B: I read a book
A: Great, let's try with another student. What did you do yesterday?
C: (Wasn't listening before) music.
A: You listened to music?
C: Yea
A: That's, "I listened to music"
C: Yea (like they already knew)
A: Ok, try saying that now, "I listened to music."
Then they repeat, but I have to string them along every word. |
It's off the topic of games, but I'll chime in to support what roadwalker wrote on the topic of getting students to respond at something above single-word level.
It sounds like you've got them trained to expect that you will model the correct response individually, every time. As roadwalker points out, if you stop providing the model, students usually will learn fairly quickly that you expect a full-sentence response. There will likely be some awkward silences before they realize that you've changed your modus operandi, but it will definitely be for the best in the big picture.
As for games, I've taught at university level (not in China or even Asia)for a decade and have never yet had to play a game, thankfully. I probably couldn't make it work, either.... |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, indeed. The TEFLy term is echoing. Frowned upon because it removes any onus or motivation from the learner to contribute full responses. They may not even be aware that the echoed statement is a form of correction at all. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
As for games, I've taught at university level (not in China or even Asia)for a decade and have never yet had to play a game, thankfully. I probably couldn't make it work, either.... |
They aren't games Spiral ... I prefer to call them 'activities'. It's just they look suspiciously like games.  In all seriousness, I do have some activities that are quite 'gamey'. I just cant believe no-one has mentioned Hangman yet! |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 'Activations', is my preferred term. And best activation of all is the well-known existentialist mingle, 'Find someone who doesn't want to be found'. Hours of entertainment. |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| I've always had room full of excited detectives getting excited in catching the suspects in inconsistencies. |
Ahh, ok. So, the point of the game is to get 4 people to agree on a story and see who forgets the story the most. I guess in that case, 3 or more would be needed. If it is just 2 and one forgets, then it would end fast. With 3 or 4, students can then try to decide who the 2 most inconsistent are in their replies.
I think I will try this first, and then add variations later.
| Quote: |
Didn't you watch any cop shows when you were younger?
All the bad guys cover for each other,
Bad guy #1 At 3pm we were all at Mickeys house, watching the footie and drinking beers, Liverpool beat Chelsea 2-0
Bad guy #2 At 3pm we were all at Mickeys house drinking beer and watching Titanic, Mickey cried when the ship went down.
whoops !! |
I didn't know the point of the game, now I do.
Some television shows do this questioning with detectives at the police station. There are also police on scene shortly after an incident. In that case, they have to question witnesses and decide who to take in. In that case people aren't working together. They are just reporting what they see.
So I thought one witness could say, "I saw 2 men enter the bank with 2 red sports bags". Another witness could add to this and say, "I saw 1 man leave with 2 sports bags". Perhaps, this could be done also. We'll see.
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| It sounds like you've got them trained to expect that you will model the correct response individually, every time. |
Much the opposite as far as giving a response. There is a long silence. There is 5 minutes of me begging them to give an answer. There is the initial me questioning like roadwalker mentioned. Then, I give the answer and it's like I was telling a joke, "Oh, yea that's what you wanted". Or it's simply they know what I want but no one wants to interact except 3 out of 30 students at best.
The good students will give short accurate answers and wait for the next question. This seems more like the school has the students trained to follow the top students as a model. I only met with these students once so far, but they are following the same pattern students I met last year in high school did. One top student would answer for everyone.
When I teach activities I can get about 3 students working on something in each group. This yields a higher return, each group can't rely on the top student/s for answers. When it is me and the class as a whole, I am completely stumped what to do.
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| have never yet had to play a game, thankfully. I probably couldn't make it work, either |
How do you fill up 1.5 hours then? I am a 40-50 minute teacher. That takes a lot out of me. To do 1.5, I am going to need something to rest my vocal cord muscles.
| Quote: |
| Yes, indeed. The TEFLy term is echoing. Frowned upon because it removes any onus or motivation from the learner to contribute full responses. They may not even be aware that the echoed statement is a form of correction at all. |
Then what do you do to motivate students to give responses? I could stand there for 1.5 hours. After 5-10 minutes they just break out into Chinese talk and forget I am there. Unless I speak in English, they will not listen. If they don't listen then they won't reply with just one word in English.
At least that one word keeps them on the other side of the language bridge and I can then expand on it. Again, three students might already be good enough to reply, but when I look for a new student to reply, it's like baggage claim pickup at the airport. Everyone just looks around, but no is grabbing the chance to reply. I hope I got that metaphor across. I am trying to find a way for them to grab their bag without me telling them it's their bag. |
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Ariadne
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 960
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Chinatimes... your experience is very different from mine. I really don't talk much at all in my Oral English classes, the students do most of the talking. I do provide topics and give guidelines. "Include part of the question in the answer." "Look at the person you are speaking to." "Try to use complete sentences." Most of our class time is spent with students in groups of 2 or 3. I walk around the room listening for common problems which I address later for the entire class.
Let the students know that you EXPECT them to speak. Remind them that if you ask a question and you can't hear the answer, they will have to repeat it until you can hear them.
Games can be fun and a nice change of pace. I use only the simplest ones like 'rumor' and "I went to the store and bought an apple. I went to the store and bought an apple and a peach..." The students love competitions... which team finished first, which team got the rumor sentence the closest to the original, which team found the most words.
Students really need to know that they will now and in the future be speaking English MOSTLY with non-native English speakers. Conversations with their classmates are an important part of their education in English.
Hand out blank cards and ask each student to write down 5 topics that they would enjoy discussing, then use those topics in class. You could start a class by having each student (quickly) tell the class something related to the topic and then break into groups to discuss it.
Just wanted to share some ideas. Hope things improve for you. I know it can be very difficult and every class is different.
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Quote:
have never yet had to play a game, thankfully. I probably couldn't make it work, either |
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| How do you fill up 1.5 hours then? I am a 40-50 minute teacher. That takes a lot out of me. To do 1.5, I am going to need something to rest my vocal cord muscles. |
Oh, Chinatimes, I said that I was off my territory posting here. I do 2-hour classes of European students from a variety of countries. I don't teach general English nor do I work with low-level students and in my situation, a student customarily leads each class. I'm there to facilitate, nothing more.
No lecture.
Our incoming classes sometimes need a bit of training in this approach to teaching/learning; that's why I have some direct experience in helping to 'train' classes to work independently.
I also do entry-level teacher training from time to time and one of the focuses is always on how new teachers can organize things so that students participate in whatever task type they are using in the class.
Ariadne's confirmed and expanded on what Sasha and I said - your students need to understand why it's useful for them to speak English together (it is true that most English used daily worldwide these days is between non-native speakers). They need to realize that you actually expect an (extended) response to your questions. |
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