Job Discussion Forums

[Argofoto]

I am researching the best way to prepare myself for a possible teaching career starting in Vietnam. From what I have read, it is one of the better places to start a TEFL career in terms of salary combined with flexibility and ease of movement.

Currently, I am working a 9 to 5 for what for some would be a career in shipping, which I trained for and earned my B.S. in yet thoroughly can't stand anymore, probably to due a lack of the proper cutthroat "business acumen". I have a lot of fun in my local volunteer english tutor program the past few months. I also have a few international friends whom I converse online with or I have met in person and spoken with and corrected either their English or various letters, resumes, and other professional documents they want edited. I am far from being a professional though.

That being said, there is a TEFL program, Oxford Seminars, at the local university at Villanova, PA on weekends. It is now a 100 hour course and I have been to their introductory seminar which seems genuine. They claim to help with job placement, even "guaranteed job placement", but I don't know how that is stipulated in their contract. However, considering it is local and I could do that while I work, makes it easier so to speak even though my workload will be heavier.

The other option is CELTA at NYC which would require me quitting my job and living with my parents for a few weeks to complete the course... That or completing CELTA in Vietnam (ILA?).

I could just hop on a plane, land in Vietnam, and figure it out from there... However, that probably isn't the smartest thing to do as feasible as some people make it out to be. I understand the process is much simpler than other countries but really, would coming here for a short vacation and then staying be a good option?

So, I am a 27 year old white guy (a shade darker though being of Romanian descent) native born English speaker, with a B.S. in Business and minor in Humanities and a few months of teaching experience (I could probably use a few more) looking to switch careers. Financial matters aside, if I were to go to Vietnam and try to find work for say, RMIT or equivalent, which would be the best approach? On the RMIT website, it is CELTA or "equivalent" so if anyone has first-hand experience with other certifications, please let me know. I am leaning more to the "high-end" schools simply because I think starting out somewhere that it might be a bit tougher/disciplined will help shape me to a better teacher. However, I don't want something as hard/grueling as some of the places I hear farther North (though it is called South .....)

Thanks.

[vabeckele]

If you want flexibility and ease of movement, just come on over and see for yourself; it is the only way to really have all your options open when you land.

A CELTA will greatly improve your chances of being hired as a full time teacher at one of the chain schools; most of them require one and will not process any application without one. This does mean losing that 'freedom' you are after. These schools will not generally permit you to work for other schools.

Regardless of how anyone feels, the British have manged to make the CELTA the no.1 cert to have, that or the Trinity - they mention 'equivalent', but none seem to come close to the CELTA, even though they may be superior or almost identical; applications seem to go nowhere - you must be a member of the 'club'.

As for the rest of the schools (99%), you can pretty much write your own ticket. Salaries will range from 15-30 bucks an hour. Sometimes lower sometimes higher, but most ESL teachers fall within this group.

Universities do not seem to be overly concerned with TESOL certs but with no experience a cert might help. Lecturers, however, will need a master's.

[mark_in_saigon]

I just think that anyone who has never done this professionally is being very unrealistic speculating about working at RMIT. I would imagine 90% or so of all the experienced, certified and qualified teachers applying there get rejected, so to have it on your radar screen (in my opinion) implies a lack of understanding of the realities of ESL in VN. Most of the students in VN are lower level, as are most of the jobs, as are most of the employers, as is the entire system. Real teachers do not automatically get better jobs. Maybe some of them do, maybe eventually most of them do, but as the system is so chaotic and unprofessional (and focused on profit over quality), do not assume you will be immediately hired in at a better organization, if you can actually find one. Just because a class is supposedly a higher level does not mean that all the students are, most are, or even any are. If you want to become a better teacher, I seriously doubt this is the best place to learn. This can be a great place to live for those who have sufficient income to live without working, then if they find something that is acceptable, it is icing on the cake. This is not a great place to be if you need a job, it is far better for them to need you more than you need them. It is not a good place to be if you have expectations of doing serious work. Just read the local news sites to see what a mess it all is. Today there was another story out on the VN teachers of English, another report on how dismal their skills are. Most of them cannot even communicate effectively with the foreign teachers that come in the classes. The whole system is like this. If you have money, you are fine. If you think teaching is going to give you a great life, danger danger, warning warning.

We have economic refugees from all over the world you will be competing with. Anyone with a good job in the west is likely much better off than the folks we have scrambling around looking for hours over here. I know a real honest to goodness certified teacher with 15 years teaching experience in the west who loves it here, but he is working in the west trying to build up enough funds to come over here and live permanently. He had no trouble getting hired here, but found that financially he is a lot better off making serious money in the west, then coming over when he has enough to make it here with or without these jobs. I suggest we come here for the life and make the work secondary. If we come here seeking (and needing) income, we risk putting ourselves in a worse position than we started from. Yeah, most people with better skills eventually get something, but I doubt this pushes their net worth higher than staying at a decent job in the west. If you already have enough net worth to live out your life, hop on the next plane over, you'll love it. If you are ready to make yourself less employable if you return to the west and are okay without work here or there, then moving over here makes perfect sense. Costs are plenty low, rents may be falling soon, local talent is cheap, and it can be a lot of fun.

[TRH]

[Argofoto]

Thanks for the info and the help. One more thing about me, I live fairly minimalist and budget my expenses very well to the point I think I can save money in Vietnam.

From what I can tell, the teaching environment is somewhat lax in VN, especially compared to some others. Yet I find it hard to believe that this can be the norm all around. I think things can change over time and improve, though you are limited by your environment in some respects, it is also your own motivation and willpower that can make you overcome that. Perhaps I am an optimist and that is why I see VN as a stellar choice. I also tend to not agree with the most popular choice for starters, Korea, because it is in my nature, though perhaps I am a bit egotistic by saying that...

Is VN not a good place to "get your feet wet" ? I know what the overwhelming choice is but maybe I am just being stubborn about it...

I will take a look at the local news though as that did not cross my mind. I plan on leaving the West in the Spring of next year, so there is time.

Also, thanks for the info on Oxford. It is really the most comfortable and easiest choice but I feel I might regret it if I have the chance to take CELTA instead. I would think there is little point in taking both of them, unless maybe I am wrong?

[mark_in_saigon]

[inhanoi]

TRH: Maybe the reason you didn't get interviews wasn't because of your age, but because you didn't have a CELTA. Look at the differences in certification programs as you've described them. Who would you interview?