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Perilla
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 792
Location: Hong Kong
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 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:15 am Post subject: Work with adults |
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| I'm posting this on behalf of a friend. She's in her mid 40s (British) and just got her 4-week CELTA certificate. No real teaching experience as yet. Well qualified (BA and MA, but not teaching or English related) with a background in environmental work but now looking for a complete change of scene - teaching English in China. But, she'd rather work with adults than kids. Any advice appreciated. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Two obvious choices are private language schools and universities.
Private language schools. Advantages - higher salary, possibility for advancement if you stay with a chain, possibly/probably more support via curriculum and teaching assistance. Disadvantages - sometimes profits come at the expense of quality, housing usually not supplied (find your own and receive a housing bonus from the school), few holidays, weekend and night work, usually get assigned all kinds of students from kids to adults (only a disadvantage if you don't want to teach a particular age group).
Universities. Advantages - free on-campus housing, light workload, more freedom in class (can be good or bad, depending on the teacher), students all roughly the same age (no kids), long paid holidays through the year. Disadvantages - little support (unless you ask, even then might be scanty), lower salary (can be supplemented with outside work though).
Personally I like the universities as I found a good job at one of them and have stayed on for several years. Prior to that I worked at the language mills and the profit at all cost ethos got to me after awhile.
She can start looking for jobs on the eslcafe job board but it looks like a lot of the jobs on offer here have been posted by recruiters. Another alternative site is this one (can contact schools directly without the middleman):
China TEFL |
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it'snotmyfault
Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:43 am Post subject: |
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I'd think a well qualified woman in her forties would find an entry level job in a private language school soul destroying. But everyone's different, and depends on your long term goals.
I'm not sure but I think these chains only teach adults; Meten, Web, king's English. I'm sure there's more too.
I find working in the public sector more worthwhile and I enjoy the freedom, but it is pretty much a dead end as far as your career is concerned. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| it'snotmyfault wrote: |
| I'd think a well qualified woman in her forties would find an entry level job in a private language school soul destroying. |
I would think she would be more likely to find a typical uni job the soul destroying one! When you have gone to the trouble of enrolling on a CELTA course (teaching adults/small classes/mentored/teaching all skills) then working in a uni environment is going to be a real let down. University / college students are not adults IMO.
Perilla - your friend might like to consider a place like these two training centres in Yangshuo (an easy place for newbies to settle and adapt to)
www.omeida.org
www.zhuoyueenglish.com/english/
Real adult students, small classes streamed by ability, no evenings or weekend classes and light workloads. Accomodation included but salaries are low. |
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it'snotmyfault
Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:08 am Post subject: |
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University / college students are not adults IMO.
I don't think many of my students would make sweeping statements such as this. I've found them to be a lot more mature than many of the so-called adults I've come across in China. Including most of the foreigners I've met !
I have classes of 30 students, they're all English majors, keen, attentive, articulate etc.
We agreed at the beginning of term that we would use the classroom time to work on any areas that they have problems with. Listening, speaking, writing, grammar. Maybe this isn't typical but I get to use a lot of the skills I picked up on my CELTA in the classroom.
Where else would I get this amount of freedom?
The schools below might offer something along the lines of 20 hrs a week, 4000rmb a month if you're lucky, shared accommodation, and you have to ceate your own curriculum. They exploit the fact that it is "Yangshuo" China's English corner.
www.omeida.org
www.zhuoyueenglish.com/english/
Sorry if Perilla's original message is getting hi-jacked |
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Shroob
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| it'snotmyfault wrote: |
University / college students are not adults IMO.
I don't think many of my students would make sweeping statements such as this. I've found them to be a lot more mature than many of the so-called adults I've come across in China. Including most of the foreigners I've met !
I have classes of 30 students, they're all English majors, keen, attentive, articulate etc.
We agreed at the beginning of term that we would use the classroom time to work on any areas that they have problems with. Listening, speaking, writing, grammar. Maybe this isn't typical but I get to use a lot of the skills I picked up on my CELTA in the classroom.
Where else would I get this amount of freedom?
The schools below might offer something along the lines of 20 hrs a week, 4000rmb a month if you're lucky, shared accommodation, and you have to ceate your own curriculum. They exploit the fact that it is "Yangshuo" China's English corner.
www.omeida.org
www.zhuoyueenglish.com/english/
Sorry if Perilla's original message is getting hi-jacked |
I may have misunderstood you, but I don't think 20 hours a week and shared accommodation for 4,000 RMB is 'lucky', that's down there with the lowest of offers. |
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it'snotmyfault
Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: |
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My meaning is that it could be worse.
I spent a little time in Yangshuo and I forget the exact details of one of the offers I got. It was around 3600rmb for full time hours with no curriculum provided. This was over a year ago, I don't imagine it has improved. |
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TexasHighway
Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 779
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:07 am Post subject: |
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7969 wrote:
| Quote: |
| Personally I like the universities as I found a good job at one of them and have stayed on for several years. Prior to that I worked at the language mills and the profit at all cost ethos got to me after awhile. |
it'snotmyfault wrote:
| Quote: |
I have classes of 30 students, they're all English majors, keen, attentive, articulate etc.
We agreed at the beginning of term that we would use the classroom time to work on any areas that they have problems with. Listening, speaking, writing, grammar. Maybe this isn't typical but I get to use a lot of the skills I picked up on my CELTA in the classroom.
Where else would I get this amount of freedom? |
I agree with the above posters. I also teach university English majors and they are a delight to teach. I just started the new semester and I teach 4 groups with a total of 135 students (9 boys and 126 girls). I taught at a language mill ten years ago and my students were obnoxious, complaining, and demanding businessmen. I have only taught at unversities since that time and I have never looked back. Again, results may vary and everyone has their own preferences. |
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mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Stay away from schools / colleges / universities / language mills.
Look at corporate training. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| it'snotmyfault wrote: |
I have classes of 30 students, they're all English majors, keen, attentive, articulate etc.
The schools below might offer something along the lines of 20 hrs a week, 4000rmb a month if you're lucky, shared accommodation, and you have to ceate your own curriculum.
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Im not suggesting your (or anyone elses) students arent nice ... but if someone makes a request that they have a preference to teach adults, it would be common practice to point out that most people would regard Chinese college and university age students to be more like senior high-school aged students at home. A typical 18-21 year old Chinese university student is indeed quite different to the adult demanding businessmen than TexasHighway mentions in his post. Perilla's friend wants to teach adults, so Im just pointing out the obvious.
I did mention the salaries arent great, but there are lots of people quite happily working there, some of whom have signed up for several contracts. For someone new to China, new to teaching, it might not be a bad choice as it is probably one of the easier (perhaps cheaper) places to live in China.
I personally would never accept a class of 30 students but kudos to you and anyone else who does. I take up to 15 reluctantly, and am far happier with between 5-8 adult students in my classroom. I think most people who are set on teaching adults expect a set-up similar to the ones that exist on a CELTA course ... as there has been no mention of a 'must make XXXXX per month to pay student loans' type requirement, Ill stand by my comments. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
The senior high school kids in my hometown are busy getting wasted, stoned, laid, and getting covered with tattoos. I haven't noticed any of this behaviour in any of my sophomore level English education majors yet (95% female), but I'm on the lookout. . . |
LOL - That is pretty typical student behaviour in the west to be fair! But in terms of maturity I think its just plain wrong to suggest Chinese uni/college age students are adults. Its not too far short of the mark to say the same is true of students everywhere!
In the original post, a preference for adults was clearly stated. My suggestion reflects that, and it would be worth pointing out that Wall Street English are another employer that caters specifically to adult students.
On a related note, I have looked at WSE and cant justify their 11-16k salary package compared to the lower paid jobs offered in Yangshuo. That may just be me of course, and there was no mention of salary requirement/needs in the OP, but people need to do look much deeper than just a number at the end of the month IMHO. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Denim-Maniac wrote: |
| it'snotmyfault wrote: |
I have classes of 30 students, they're all English majors, keen, attentive, articulate etc.
The schools below might offer something along the lines of 20 hrs a week, 4000rmb a month if you're lucky, shared accommodation, and you have to ceate your own curriculum. |
Im not suggesting your (or anyone elses) students arent nice ... but if someone makes a request that they have a preference to teach adults, it would be common practice to point out that most people would regard Chinese college and university age students to be more like senior high-school aged students at home. |
The senior high school kids in my hometown are busy getting wasted, stoned, laid, and covered with tattoos. I haven't noticed this behaviour in any of my sophomore level English education majors yet (95% female), but I'm on the lookout. Of course some university students here in China are like high school kids - some of them are just a few months removed from high school. What else would you expect from freshmen away from home for the first time? C'mon, cut them some slack . . . But after a year or two at college the positive transformation in most of them is noticeable, at least to people who see them over an extended period of time. My students here are young adults, they're well behaved, and I treat them accordingly. Obviously a 35 or 40 year old businessman learning English will have different traits but some of them aren't so admirable either. At any rate, you can get the good and the bad no matter where you work. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
C'mon, cut them some slack . . .
Obviously a 35 or 40 year old businessman learning English will have different traits but some of them aren't so admirable either.
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I dont think there is a need to cut them slack 7969 - The thread isnt debating the maturity or needs of a typical student, but rather than wants of a prospective teacher. The businessmen type students sound awful as described earlier, again ... admirable or awful isn't an issue here, its the OP's request Im addressing....a preference to teach adults. Im sure your students (and I dont doubt they are great, I know you like your job) say things like 'when I enter society...', there is a clear difference in teaching adults and teaching at FE level.
Bizarrely, I copied you in my last post, but the post I quoted from appeared below mine.  |
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Perilla
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 792
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the feedback. Re. the unis, is it possible for someone with no teaching experience to get a decent uni post - ie. is just the CELTA and postgrad-qualified status enough? (In HK, for example, experience would also be required, plus an MA TESOL at some unis). |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Denim-Maniac wrote: |
| University / college students are not adults IMO. |
| Denim-Maniac wrote: |
| 7969 wrote: |
C'mon, cut them some slack . . .
Obviously a 35 or 40 year old businessman learning English will have different traits but some of them aren't so admirable either. |
I dont think there is a need to cut them slack 7969 - The thread isnt debating the maturity or needs of a typical student, but rather than wants of a prospective teacher. |
Denim Maniac, I think it's a useful discussion to have, and I think you do too (you did bring up the topic of maturity above). If a prospective teacher wants to teach only "adults" isn't a discussion on the characteristics and needs of potential students relevant? They're not mutually exclusive. Not all university students here behave like snotty little rich kids. They vary by grade, by major, by gender . . . previous to my current job I had experience with non-English majors at another college and they were almost evenly split between male/female. Not surprisingly their English wasn't very good (some made honest efforts nonetheless) and those were the groups I had the most problems with, but they were only bad relative to other Chinese university students I've taught (some annoying behaviour and poor study habits, nothing more). On the other hand English majors in Chinese universities tend to be female, keen to learn, and very pleasant people. |
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