Job Discussion Forums

[Jbhughes]

I've just applied to one of the foreign-owned schools. I was absolutely flabbergasted when they asked me to pay the fee for the work permit application. I also saw in their drawer all of the work permits from the current teachers in the school.

As far as I'm concerned, the law is very clear about this:

Paying for the work permit:

Clause 2, Article 19 of the Decree on Employment and Administration of Foreigners Working in Vietnam, number 34/2008, dated 25th March 2008 (amended and supplemented, although the amendments do not affect this particular clause):

Article 19: Responsibilities of employers and Vietnamese parties.

Clause 2. To carry out procedures to apply for issuance, extension and re-issuance of work permits for foreigners to work in Vietnam and to pay the fees for issuance of work permits in accordance with law.

Clause 9, Article 14 of the Circular Guiding the Implementation of a Number of Articles of Decree Number 34/2008/ND-CP, dated 25 March, 2008 (the above decree). This is Circular Number 31/2011/TT-BLDTBXH, dated 3rd November, 2011:

Article 14. Responsibilities of the employers, Vietnam side partner and foreign non-governmental organizations

Clause 9. To pay fees for grant of work permits, extension of work permits and regrant of work permits under the provisions of law on charges and fees.

I will follow with the relevant clauses regarding who keeps the work permit later, after work. Do note that there is a further document, which amends and supplements 34/2008, numbered 46/2011, but this doesn't affect the articles regarding who pays for it.

EDIT: Few mistakes, highlights.

[Jbhughes]

Employee is responsible for keeping the work permit:

Clause 1, Article 13, Decree Number 34/2008/ND-CP:

Article 13 - Use of work permits

Clause 1. Foreigners shall be responsible to retain their issued work permits for the term of validity.


Also of note:

Clause 2. Foreigners shall present their work permits when conducting procedures for entry and exit, and on request by a competent State body.

Clause 1, Article 10, Circular 31/2011/TT-BLDTBXH:

Article 10. Use of work permit

1. Use of work permit as prescribed in clause 1 of Article 13 of Decree No.34/2008/ND-CP (as in the above clause) amended and supplemented, is guided to implement as follows:

Foreigner shall be responsible for keeping work permit granted when it is still valid. Not later than 02 (two) days after the work permit has expired or is invalid, the foreigner must submit the work permit to the employer or Vietnam side partner, representative of foreign NGO.

Further, written on the back of the damn thing itself:

"3- The utilization of this permit is restricted to the bearer."

The Vietnamese is a little more direct and less flowery:

"3- Kh�ng được cho người kh�c mượn."

Literally: "Not allowed to lend it to someone else." (or similar).

Links to Vietnamese language documents to print out and put under people's noses:

Decree 34/2008:
http://moj.gov.vn/vbpq/Lists/Vn%20bn%20php%20lut/View_Detail.aspx?ItemID=12795

Circular 31/2011:
http://csdl.thutuchanhchinh.vn/content/download/445373/11446200/file/31_2011_TT-BL%c4%90TBXH.doc (direct download link)

Decree 46/2011 (this one amends and supplements some articles from 34/2008, not directly related to my particular points, but one should read this, too):

http://vanban.chinhphu.vn/portal/page/portal/chinhphu/hethongvanban?class_id=1&_page=1&mode=detail&document_id=101121

Article = Điều
Clause = khoản (although you can't search for "khoản 2", just find the Điều and scroll down to the correct number.

I can't remember where I got the English versions of the above documents, but if you just google the number along with 'English' or 'tiếng Anh', then you should find them. Failing that, just put it all in google translate, I've used that before with Vietnamese law documents and you can pretty much know what's going on. That, or assign it as HW in one of your classes?! They'd probably just do the googling for you, though

If anyone disagrees with any of the above, has more up-to-date legal documents, or has experience with the actual Government departments doing something different (I don't mean the school spinning a load of bullshit lies), do share. I'm open to correction.

Please, though - stop just going 'ok, ok, ok.' it makes it so much harder for the rest of us, who'd rather not fork over 500-odd k, which will just slip into some admin's pocket anyway. There's always the possibility of a re-fund, too.

[biliana]

Excellent points of reference!

[mark_in_saigon]

The problem I see on all this is you have your actual fees and then you have your additional charges that are not documented. I think the argument the schools make is they don't want to pay those "additional charges", so it gets somewhat confused. I do generally agree with what you are saying though, and think it would be great if everyone brought these documents with them when the question came up. Despite the supposed enforcement this year, looks to me like pretty much the same story where there is not this great compliance this year compared to years past.

[inhanoi]

Yes, the law is very clear. I've never paid for a WP or Visa in 4+ years working for one of the "foreign-owned schools." So perhaps you should name the school. They are obviously violating the law.

[Andy123]

Let me guess the school that is doing this:

Asian High School and IPS a.k.a. The spawns of Satan were you sell your soul knowning you are probably doing more harm than good.

I absolutely loved the kids but found administration truely the closest thing to real evil.

[biliana]