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DirtGuy
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 529
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 Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:14 am Post subject: |
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OK. I'm getting the idea that I'm selling myself too cheaply. I haven't agreed to anything but I have told them I will neither teach the really young learners nor will I do outside marketing for them. A low profile is in order here. I'm not really competing with the uni where I work so not too concerned about offending them.
Thanks for the input.
DG |
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fred13331
Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 108
Location: Southern China
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| DirtGuy wrote: |
OK. I'm getting the idea that I'm selling myself too cheaply. I haven't agreed to anything but I have told them I will neither teach the really young learners nor will I do outside marketing for them. A low profile is in order here. I'm not really competing with the uni where I work so not too concerned about offending them.
Thanks for the input.
DG |
They are taking you for a mug. This kind of set up happens all over China, teachers work for a university, relatively light workload, then bump up their income by doing private classes.
This works out well for the private schools, they don't pay airfare, rent, visa fees etc, so this should be factored in to their pricing. You are offered 3,500 / 4.3 / 20 = 40 RMB an hour. The very least you should expect is 120, even in the middle of nowhere. I am in a big city and charge various outside clients 160, 180, 200, 250, 300 an hour. It is time to renegotiate the 160, 180. The 300 started negotiating at 150, I stuck to my guns and got my 300.
They will not be paying you 3,500 when there is a holiday, and in you will prob have to work around the calendar to keep getting paid, not a great situation to be in. All in all, an hourly rate is the only way to go with these guys.
I guarantee if you tell them 3,500 is an insult, and sit back, they will be back with more. Personally I would ask for 150 an hour at least, I believe Anyang is rural? |
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Mister Al
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 840
Location: In there
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Minimum Y100 pper hour, so Y2000 per week. In cash at the end of the week. Yer mad if you accept any less. |
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DirtGuy
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 529
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, everyone, for the info. I'm doing a demo lesson Sunday morning and then we get down to the nitty-gritty. Now I have a much better goal to go for.
DG |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| fred13331 wrote: |
The very least you should expect is 120, even in the middle of nowhere.
I am in a big city and charge various outside clients 160, 180, 200, 250, 300 an hour. It is time to renegotiate the 160, 180. The 300 started negotiating at 150, I stuck to my guns and got my 300.
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Two points here - The 120 is a nice idea, but I dont think it does apply everywhere / all the time as suggested above. Students in the training centre where I have enjoyed two contracts sometimes pay as little as 20-30 RMB per 45 minute class. With class sizes limited to 12 in peak seasons, but normally running at 4-6 students, that 120 RMB per 45 minute lesson might be the training centres entire take. Sticking to your guns and holding out for that figure may not always be possible.
The second point is what you charge as a private instructor to outside clients may not always reflect an hourly rate as a teacher at a language school. I dont think you can compare the two really. |
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DirtGuy
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 529
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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D-M.
Thank you for your post. This is something that has been rattling around inside my head but you verbalized better than I. I think I can get better than 3,500 but not much more so and, at this time, I really do want to work here.
DG |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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I think you need to look at the class and business model before deciding if they are paying too much / too little. Not every training centre is 20 kids per class paying per class, with the boss rolling in money.
Whilst my bosses model may not sound sustainable (low student fees and small classes) he has been trading for 10 years.
Accepting 45 per hour when the boss is taking 100 per hour himself is fine for me. Taking 100 per hour when the boss is trousering 1000 is kinda different. |
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DirtGuy
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 529
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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I will ask what the kids are paying when I do a demo on Sunday and do some quick calculating. This is not a rich place by any means. Laid back and nice but not rolling in money so thanks for another way to look at the situation.
DG |
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fred13331
Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 108
Location: Southern China
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Denim-Maniac wrote: |
| fred13331 wrote: |
The very least you should expect is 120, even in the middle of nowhere.
I am in a big city and charge various outside clients 160, 180, 200, 250, 300 an hour. It is time to renegotiate the 160, 180. The 300 started negotiating at 150, I stuck to my guns and got my 300.
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Two points here - The 120 is a nice idea, but I dont think it does apply everywhere / all the time as suggested above. Students in the training centre where I have enjoyed two contracts sometimes pay as little as 20-30 RMB per 45 minute class. With class sizes limited to 12 in peak seasons, but normally running at 4-6 students, that 120 RMB per 45 minute lesson might be the training centres entire take. Sticking to your guns and holding out for that figure may not always be possible.
The second point is what you charge as a private instructor to outside clients may not always reflect an hourly rate as a teacher at a language school. I dont think you can compare the two really. |
160 and 180 were at language schools over the Summer. I was slow to accept the 160, but they promised, and delivered a lot of hours. The others are private clients which are generally higher.
Nonetheless 120 is what I would consider an absolute minimum regardless of the circumstances. 7 years ago in the middle of nowhere, redneck China I was getting 100 in private gigs.
'Accepting 45 per hour when the boss is taking 100 per hour himself is fine for me. Taking 100 per hour when the boss is trousering 1000 is kinda different.''
I can see no logic in this statement. The first mill I worked part time for in my current city was losing money hand over fist, but, they hired me at a reasonable fee, and, when they started making money, I didn't demand more. I consider my time to be of some value, therefore, if the boss is failing to attract students, it is not my problem, or if he is coining it - good for him, neither circumstance should affect my rate.
By this logic, there should be a huge walkout in Apple, where the bosses are minting money, but Nokia workers should be content with there lot as the company is going down the tubes - baffling logic to me |
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Kysorb
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Posts: 253
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| Why would anyone work so hard for such money.... Come get paid 13000 in Beijing for 20 hours. |
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El Macho
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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For IELTS stuff, I wouldn't start out for less than 250/hour. In Beijing it isn't too hard to find pt work paying 300+ RMB/hr, but people have to know you (or know of you). Of course, it depends upon your experience, quals, etc., and on the size of the city in which you're working but specialized teaching needs to be paid fairly.
As others have mentioned, they won't be paying you for housing, visa, etc; since they probably don't have the papers to hire foreigners, they also won't be paying any taxes on your salary. If they won't pay you well, it's because they're cheap.
You might check out the website ForeignTeacherPay.com to see if they have any information on hourly rates in your city. The site seems like a work in process and their data is a bit limited, but looks like it could turn into a good resource. |
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thatsforsure
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| i would tell them to go jump in a lake ,, they want to take you for a ride . they will just snicker at you behind your back .. if thats the best paying extra work in town then i would'nt bother .. you should be able to make a lot more money by net hustlin as i have described on other threads .. sit in your apartment and figure out a web side hustle you can do at your own pace and you can make many many times more money than the school would dream of paying you |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| thatsforsure wrote: |
| i would tell them to go jump in a lake ,, they want to take you for a ride . they will just snicker at you behind your back .. if thats the best paying extra work in town then i would'nt bother .. you should be able to make a lot more money by net hustlin as i have described on other threads .. sit in your apartment and figure out a web side hustle you can do at your own pace and you can make many many times more money than the school would dream of paying you |
That sound like televangelism to me !! |
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thatsforsure
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| well, i have nothing to sell or promote .. people should figure out there own hustle , no one helped me .. just saying that i dont like to see people get themselves taken for chumps .. and believe me the chinese can smell a chump a mile away, and will not hesitate to take avantage. in fact when they first see a foregner, there spidey sense is already tingling like crazy: 'PROBABLE CHUMP'! |
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RPMcMurphy
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 90
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| The best paid extra work is in companies. Get your foot in the door with one and you'll get cold-called by others if you're any good. After an initial contract or two, get fussy: no factory floor type students, as all they want to do is get home to dinner, plus the pay's lower. This may then involve teaching management on weekends, but even 10 years ago I was getting 250 an hour for this, as well as a car both ways and lunch in the executives' dining room. |
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