Job Discussion Forums

johnslat · Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:33 pm Post subject:

Dear disraeli123,

Perhaps you missed my earlier post:

"OK, it's put up or shut up time:

" . . . these people who do not know anything about freedom and how to keep it . . . "

Here are my credentials: USMC: 1963 - 1967; Chu Lai, Vietnam: 1965 - 1966, wounded and medevaced to Atsugi Naval Hospital, Japan, Purple Heart.

Now, let's see your credentials, oh great knower about freedom and how to keep it."

Regards,
John - waiting

geaaronson · Joined: 19 Apr 2005 Posts: 948 Location: Mexico City

Sashadroogie · Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:42 am Post subject:

Tsk tsk... for too much counter-revolutionary propaganda on this thread for my liking. But won't do a thing to stem the Communist tide that is going to wash away all injustice and inequity. Even in the cold heartlands of capitalism, hic! Captain Pronin will liberate you all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DSO54E43YU&feature=related

disraeli123

John, I didn't miss your previous post I was preoccupied with some health issues. First I feel grateful for your service to our country that is what a patriot is all about. Unlike you I was born in 1959 so my service was in the Naval Reserve I did see limited service out of Bahrain in the first Gulf War in 1990. Like my father who served in W.W.2 I usually don't talk about my service much. I was in the Naval Reserve for 12 years. The problem is John I'm not trying to measure who is the greater patriot, but sometimes people forget why wars are fought. Sometimes wars are mistakes such as Iraq, but I'd rather our country make mistakes then sit things out and allow another Hitler to emerge on the world stage. Again sorry for the delay in me answering you, but my health has to come first.

disraeli123

Hello Geaaronson, First I didn't mean Henry called me names, if you had read my entire post you would have seen that I meant calling Ronald Reagan namea such as Doofus. The man's dead have some respect for the dead is what I meant. I won't call dead people names except maybe Hitler, Stalin et al. I do not think they deserve respect, but an ex U.S. president yes even the ones I disagreed with. Henry seems to have forgotten that simple lesson taught usually to us by our parents. I also, think that civility is the sign of a mature person.

disraeli123

Hello Geaaronson, This is for you only. It seems you said earlier you would cal Reagan the same names as Henry did and others such as clueless well as I said, before did you forget the lessons hopefully taught to you as a child to respect the dead. Maturity is about more than age it has a lot of different parts. Like I said I disagree with a number of presidents such as Carter , but I will not use such language as you and Henry use especially against the dead they can't defend themselves can they.

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

Here's what a Romney victory and Republican U.S. Senate would look like...

Republican Senate candidate Joe Walsh: �I could give a darn about how foreigners are treated."

Tea Party Rep. Joe Walsh says that they have no rights, and that he "could give a darn" how they're treated.

Illinois Tea Party Rep. Joe Walsh, once again giving voice to the conservative id, told a crowd in Wood Dale, Ill., this weekend that he doesn�t care about the rights of non-American citizens, and doesn�t care if they�re mistreated in what he sees as a grand struggle between the West and radical Islam. �I�m gonna do whatever I can to beat and kill that ugly, evil, radical strain [of Islam]. I�m not concerned about their rights and their liberties,� Walsh said at a campaign event Saturday.

�People, my friend, those who are not American citizens. I�m not, they are trying to kill me and my kids. They are trying to kill you and your fellow Americans. I�m concerned with protecting Americans. I could give a darn about their rights, or their freedoms, or how we treat them if they are not American citizens,� Walsh added. Video of the event was captured by a tracker from the CREDO super PAC, a liberal outside group connected to the progressive cellphone provider CREDO mobile....

johnslat · Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject:

Dear disraeli123,

Thank you, too, for your service. In a way, I also saw "limited service" in Desert Storm since I was in Riyadh then and we got SCUDDED about fifty times.

I'm afraid, though, that I can't agree with you about making mistakes such as Iraq was. Saddam was certainly no Hitler in the area of desiring "world-domination," although he was, of course, a psychopathic killer, mainly of his own people (and the Iranians.) If we wanted to take out a nutcase, one who everyone knew for sure had WMDs (i.e. nuclear weapons ,) then we should have invaded North Korea.
Saddam, on the other hand, was an deadly enemy of both the Iranian mullahs and of Osama and Al Qaeda. While that doesn't in any way justify his barbarism towards his own people, it did make him more of an asset than a disability as far as US foreign policy went.

But what I objected to was this quote:

" . . . these people who do not know anything about freedom and how to keep it . . . ."

which I (perhaps mistakenly?) saw as being directed at any and all posters who disagree with you and EFLeducator.

If that was the case, I'd say it was extremely presumptuous and unwarranted of you to say that we all "do not know anything about freedom and how to keep it." Heck, you don't really know much, if anything, about us at all. So, perhaps making blanket insults isn't such a good idea.

Regards,
John

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

Dropping unnecessary atomic bombs on civilian populations is not how a nation "keeps freedom." Idea

disraeli123 · Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: Henry

You might be right, but it is how you keep Americans alive and shorten a war. Sometimes countries even though they'd like to trumpet freedom have to look to their own house and care for their own people such as my DAD who lived 61 years longer, because of Truman's actions.

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

See the facts posted in the Mexico forum. U.S. government and military officials knew the war was over before the bombs were dropped. Eisenhower agreed.

johnslat · Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject:

Dear Henry,

And, as we veer WAY off topic - would continued firebombing have been really any better?

"Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated."
This conclusion assumed conventional fire bombing would have continued, with ever-increasing numbers of B-29s, and a greater level of destruction to Japan's cities and population."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

"The Tokyo firebombing has long been overshadowed by the U.S. atomic attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki which preceded the Japanese surrender that ended World War II the following August. But the burning of the capital, which resulted in more immediate deaths than either of the nuclear bombings, stands as a horrifying landmark in the history of warfare on noncombatants.

More than 300 B-29 "Superfortress" bombers dropped nearly a half-million M-69 incendiary cylinders over Tokyo that night and early morning, destroying some 16 square miles of the city. The attack, coming a month after a similar raid on Dresden, Germany, brought the mass incineration of civilians to a new level in a conflict already characterized by unprecedented bloodshed.

The official death toll was some 83,000, but historians generally agree that victims unaccounted for bring the figure to around 100,000, overwhelmingly civilians. It is widely considered to be the most devastating air raid in history. "

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0310-08.htm

Regards,
John

Henry_Cowell · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley

The Tokyo firebombing was a War Crime.

The atomic blasts over Hiroshima and Nagasaki were also War Crimes.

johnslat · Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:40 pm Post subject:

Dear Henry,

In my opinion, WAR is a CRIME.

Regards,
John

disraeli123

Whether it was through the fire bombings or the atomic bombs large amounts of civilians were going to die no matter which way it went, because no president would have allowed the deaths estimated by the War Department. Henry you and I will never agree, because I will take my father's life over anything done to the Japanese they started the war and they couldn't finish it an Island against a Continent no chance for them to win they were warned by Admiral Yamamoto that this or something similar would happen to them, if the war went beyond 2 years he had lived and seen the U.S. up close. You see Henry great powers use their power it's a basic lesson of history and when you are confronted by evil such as Hitler Auschwitz, Tojo the Bataan death march and the rape of Nanking you do what you have to do to win, even, if you hate doing it. As Truman said he would have dropped the bomb on Berlin, if the war in Europe had lasted longer. You end war as soon as you can, because as someone said on this forum WaR is a Crime Exclamation