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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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 Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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I studied engineering at university. It was incredibly tough, and I look back at my university years with grim memories of six hours a day minimum of lectures, having to then study at least five hours a day to somehow get my head around the topics taught and then doing my coursework. Come exam time, it was weeks and weeks of sleeping four hours a night and sitting exams every day, sometimes twice a day, for three weeks.
A few years later, I took the CELTA and was more than surprised to find my course mates getting more and more stressed as the four weeks went on. Some were emotional wrecks upon week 3, but I was bored and went to the pub every other night. I had study skills.
There�s an argument here for the amount of effort and study skills required in studying an arts degree, e.g. languages, history, art or classics, versus a science or engineering subject. Few could argue the latter isn�t trickier.
But for the UK graduates reading, I�m curious what you think about new universities. Before 1992, the UK had around fifty universities, and the entrance requirements using the UK A-level system invariable required three A-Levels at grade B or above. This still applies. However, after 1992, fifty or so polytechnics were changed into so-called university status. The entrance requirements can be found of any of these institution�s websites, but they are typically three A-Levels at grade D or above.
Don�t take my word for it that these so-called new universities are below par. Twenty years after these polytechnic-*beep*-universities came into existence, many companies won�t even look at �new university� graduates for their training schemes. I don�t blame them. Whenever I�ve had issues with an underperformer, nine times out of ten they will be a graduate from a new university.
What I really don�t get is now undergraduates have to pay to go to UK universities. We�re talking �9000 a year plus living expenses. Undergraduates now can expect debts of �40000, which for me is an outrage. However, the course fees for traditional and new universities are identical. Why pay �9000 for a substandard course?
Anyway, I�ve certainly turned down people for jobs because they studied at a new university. The lesson there is don�t go for second best. |
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Qaaolchoura
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 539
Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Sirens of Cyprus wrote: |
| See what I mean? A BA in English should be mandatory. What a sad state the profession is in! |
It is in Indonesia now.
Well the actual requirement is that the word "English" be somewhere in the degree name, but that's pretty close to what you want, since very few applied linguistics or education majors�even those who studied English grammar or instruction�will have the magic word on their diplomas, seeing as how US diplomas aren't generally designed to please petty bureaucrats in foreign countries. (My diploma doesn't even state my major; you have to look at my transcript for that, something which any domestic employer who cares about the content of my degree will do as a matter of course.)
Now a serious question: what actual benefit is there to having a B.A. in "English," besides having "English" in the name?
I was a linguistics major, but I had a good many professors in college tell me that I'm either one of the best writers they've taught, or the best they've had in years. Since I don't consider myself a particularly good writer, and since some of these were writing teachers who mostly teach English majors, the anecdotal evidence from my own college education suggests that "English" majors aren't necessarily very good at English.
Employers should be able to evaluate potential employees' own English skills: written English in applications and emails, oral English, grammar, and teaching skills in interviews. But making a blanket assumption that English majors are better at speaking or writing English than your average college student, let alone uniquely qualified to teach it, has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
~Q |
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Qaaolchoura
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 539
Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| fractal75 wrote: |
| Sirens of Cyprus wrote: |
| See what I mean? A BA in English should be mandatory. What a sad state the profession is in! |
A BA in any subject does not signify that you can teach it whatsoever. |
Or that you even know it, possibly unless you're in one of the hard sciences at a technical school. I've met economics majors who don't know what "comparative advantage" is, I had international relations majors in my Arabic class who didn't know who Hosni Mubarak was (this was while he was still president of the world's largest Arab country), and I've met English majors who don't know how to use the shift key and have never heard of Evelyn Waugh.
I even had a friend who graduated in computer science student who admitted he didn't know anything about computer architecture and barely knew how to program. Of course said friend went to a liberal arts college, I imagine CS students at technical colleges get a better education.
Still, as a liberal arts graduate myself, I would make no assumptions about what any recent graduate of a liberal arts college knows in any subject. Even at the best schools it's all too easy not to learn a thing nowadays. I've met students even from Amherst and Middleton who know less about their major, from four years of intense study, than I do from casual reading.
~Q |
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fractal75
Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| We can often infer that one who possesses a BA has achieved a certain level of literacy. |
Yes, but one who can't necessarily teach. I suggest you re-read. |
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Jbhughes
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| Hod wrote: |
I studied engineering at university. It was incredibly tough, and I look back at my university years with grim memories of six hours a day minimum of lectures, having to then study at least five hours a day to somehow get my head around the topics taught and then doing my coursework. Come exam time, it was weeks and weeks of sleeping four hours a night and sitting exams every day, sometimes twice a day, for three weeks.
A few years later, I took the CELTA and was more than surprised to find my course mates getting more and more stressed as the four weeks went on. Some were emotional wrecks upon week 3, but I was bored and went to the pub every other night. I had study skills.
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This is interesting. Everyone on the (4-week) CELTA course that I attended found it stressful and very intensive.
I have since met a Natural Sciences graduate from Cambridge who told me his CELTA course was as intensive as any part of his B.A had been. He's about 30, I think you're older, Hod? Another argument for uni courses getting easier? Perhaps your study skills are even better than you think!? |
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fractal75
Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| Jbhughes wrote: |
| Hod wrote: |
I studied engineering at university. It was incredibly tough, and I look back at my university years with grim memories of six hours a day minimum of lectures, having to then study at least five hours a day to somehow get my head around the topics taught and then doing my coursework. Come exam time, it was weeks and weeks of sleeping four hours a night and sitting exams every day, sometimes twice a day, for three weeks.
A few years later, I took the CELTA and was more than surprised to find my course mates getting more and more stressed as the four weeks went on. Some were emotional wrecks upon week 3, but I was bored and went to the pub every other night. I had study skills.
|
This is interesting. Everyone on the (4-week) CELTA course that I attended found it stressful and very intensive.
I have since met a Natural Sciences graduate from Cambridge who told me his CELTA course was as intensive as any part of his B.A had been. He's about 30, I think you're older, Hod? Another argument for uni courses getting easier? Perhaps your study skills are even better than you think!? |
Agreed! It was not easy! On our course, six (mostly graduates), dropped out, couldn't handle the intensity. Two others failed. Five passed out of the original 13! |
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Mike_2007
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 349
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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