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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 3292 Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:41 am Post subject: |
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VietCanada wrote: |
who but grammar junkies (kidding) can give a short, elegant answer to when to use who or whom. |
Time to crack out the LGSWE again, to make up for the devastating loss of a quote from Folse. But seriously, I recall the LGSWE is pretty good on who versus whom, esp. the actual usage data. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 590
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:47 am Post subject: |
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fluffyhamster wrote: |
VietCanada wrote: |
who but grammar junkies (kidding) can give a short, elegant answer to when to use who or whom. |
Time to crack out the LGSWE again, to make up for the devastating loss of a quote from Folse. But seriously, I recall the LGSWE is pretty good on who versus whom, esp. the actual usage data. |
I was asked that question about 12 years ago. My first week or or so of my first EFL job. I, like everyone else I knew just didn't use whom. I think that roughly sums up the usage data.
I found Michael Swan's book shortly after. Dl-ing a LGSWE pdf is proving a bit more challenging.
I read this article last night from the (Canadian newspaper) Globe and Mail's public editor. It seems readers are complaining to them about errors using who and whom in their articles.
There were some good tips and a brief discussion about the newspapers style book rule suggesting 'breaking the rules to avoid sounding stuffy'[sic]. Perhaps that's the source of the error.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/community/inside-the-globe/public-editor-when-whowhom-trips-us-up-it-also-trips-up-our-readers/article5371529/
Tip #1: "Substitute the pronoun �him� or �them� when you�re in a who/whom quandary. If it sounds right, �whom� is correct (and that�s easy to remember because all those pronouns end with an �m�). If �he� or �they� sounds correct, the pronoun you want is �who�." |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 3292 Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, that sounds about right regarding the usage data LOL.
The Language Log website, especially Geoffrey Pullum, often criticizes those who use hypercorrect forms e.g. 'whom' even when it sounds odd. Worth a look if one hasn't visited that site before. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Who versus whom? What's the matter? It's easy. And it is still in use, if a little old-fashioned. 'To whom it may concern...' for example.
Nothing like the quagmire that articles presents. Very hard to say you have a totally explicit knowledge of how those chappies operate. So, Fluffy, no cigar there, but a worthy research attempt. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 590
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:13 am Post subject: |
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fluffyhamster wrote: |
Yeah, that sounds about right regarding the usage data LOL.
The Language Log website, especially Geoffrey Pullum, often criticizes those who use hypercorrect forms e.g. 'whom' even when it sounds odd. Worth a look if one hasn't visited that site before. |
That site is interesting.
Another interesting site is edge.org.
In their words- "To arrive at the edge of the world's knowledge, seek out the most complex and sophisticated minds, put them in a room together, and have them ask each other the questions they are asking themselves."
If your interest is purely Linguistics you can search and find contributions from several people in the field. Noam Chomsky has contributed a few times. |
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