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90 Day Visas
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jaffa



Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: 90 Day Visas Reply with quote

Looks like someone is trying to make trouble:-

http://www.arabnews.com/illegal-practice-teachers
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Making trouble" may be your spin as a wetback. "Enforcing the law" would be mine, as one who always had a regular employment visa with igama and all the consequent privileges !

Last edited by scot47 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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jaffa



Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
"Making trouble" may be your spin as a wetback.


I don't even know what this means, but I too have iqama, etc.

The irony is that it's the Saudis who employ the teachers on business visas, while this guy is promoting the idea that the teachers should be held accountable/prosecuted/jailed for it.
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truthbebold



Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa wrote:
scot47 wrote:
"Making trouble" may be your spin as a wetback.


I don't even know what this means, but I too have iqama, etc.

The irony is that it's the Saudis who employ the teachers on business visas, while this guy is promoting the idea that the teachers should be held accountable/prosecuted/jailed for it.


Exactly!
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To "put a spin on a story" means to emphasise one aspect of it.
A "wetback" is an illegal immigrant,especially a Mexican in the USA.

In any dispute involving a Saudi and a foreigner in KSA, who do you imagine wins ?


Last edited by scot47 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nickelgoat



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Where in the world is nickelgoat?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.....

Last edited by nickelgoat on Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the article:

"This refers to the report, �Private tuition becoming an increasing trend among teachers,� published on Nov. 29, which mentions about many teachers in the kingdom offering their students �private tuition sessions� despite a clear edict against this by the Ministry of Education.

Foreign English instructors employed by recruitment agents to teach Preparatory Year Programs in universities across the Kingdom are also tutoring privately. These instructors have neither iqamas nor employment visas. They have 3-month business visit visas and they keep renewing every 90 days in a foreign country like Bahrain. They are lured to Saudi Arabia with promises of tax-free high salaries, which they supplement with after-hour tutoring to university and high school students.

When will the Ministry of Labor and Ministry of Higher Education and Ministry of Foreign Affairs investigate these visa scams taking place in universities across the nation?
Are these foreign instructors immune from prosecution because they are Western?"

If you have an iqama and are there legally, then what in this article is "making trouble" for you? The law is being broken by all the parties involved: the teachers, the recruitment agencies, and the universities. However, as scot47 pointed out, it's only the wasta-less teachers who might be in any danger of suffering adverse consequences.

Regards,
John
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Middle East Beast



Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 836
Location: Up a tree

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa wrote:
scot47 wrote:
"Making trouble" may be your spin as a wetback.


I don't even know what this means, but I too have iqama, etc.

The irony is that it's the Saudis who employ the teachers on business visas, while this guy is promoting the idea that the teachers should be held accountable/prosecuted/jailed for it.


...and the teachers are accepting these visas knowing they will be working in KSA illegally (despite claims to the contrary by the employers/recruiters).

I agree with John. When the passport control agent stamps your passport upon entry into KSA an iron gate slams shut behind you separating you from whatever rights you enjoyed elsewhere. If you listen closely you can actually hear the gate slam shut...and lock.Shocked

MEB Cool
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Foreign English instructors employed by recruitment agents to teach Preparatory Year Programs in universities across the Kingdom are also tutoring privately. "

Well, shock, shock Shocked Shocked I'd venture to say that many/most legitimate and those teachers not so have engaged in private tutoring. I even had my Saudi BOSSES (who knew, of course, that it "violated the contract") ask me to tutor some people.

As has been posted many times on this forum, private tutoring almost always, maybe ALWAYS, is a contract violation. Teachers in Saudi or going there who have visited this forum (or actually read their contracts) should know that. And every time it's been mentioned here, someone has cautioned: BE DISCRETE. Your employers may not fire you if they find out (especially if they're the ones asking you to do it Very Happy), but if they need any excuse to get rid of you anywhere down the road, they'll have it.

Regards,
John
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jaffa



Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
In any dispute involving a Saudi and a foreigner in KSA, who do you imagine wins ?


Erm ... would it be the Mexican with a wet back from illegal USA spinning about in Arabia Saudi the Kingdom, with a certificate in Teaching Gobbledygook as A Foreign Language, first class?
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't matter Jaffa... it would still be the Saudi who would win. Laughing

VS
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camraman



Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it`s unfair to say teachers accept 90 day visa`s knowing they are illegal . I was hired on the promise of an ikarma , when I got here I was told they were no longer available and was put on a 90 day one . What was I supposed to do , hop on the next plane back home ?when you come here you have every right to expect that your employer will act legally . My knowledge of visas is greater now than it was when I arrived . However this is only because I knew nothing when I arrived . I`ve been her 10 months , being renewed every 120 days {there is a 30 day extesion available on a 90 day visa ].I only work for my employer ,and have been told on my request to leave after 11 months that the `1 month holiday with pay bonus `that would have been my 12 th month is not available because i`m not on the ikarma . the fact I`ve never been offered an Ikarma , is just too bad .It`s just the way it is over here
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

camraman wrote:
I think it`s unfair to say teachers accept 90 day visa`s knowing they are illegal . I was hired on the promise of an ikarma , when I got here I was told they were no longer available and was put on a 90 day one . What was I supposed to do , hop on the next plane back home ?when you come here you have every right to expect that your employer will act legally . My knowledge of visas is greater now than it was when I arrived . However this is only because I knew nothing when I arrived . I`ve been her 10 months , being renewed every 120 days {there is a 30 day extesion available on a 90 day visa ].I only work for my employer ,and have been told on my request to leave after 11 months that the `1 month holiday with pay bonus `that would have been my 12 th month is not available because i`m not on the ikarma . the fact I`ve never been offered an Ikarma , is just too bad .It`s just the way it is over here

It's "iqama," not "ikarma," although there's something karmic awaiting many of those who don't hold one. Anyway, it's unfortunate you hadn't stumbled onto this site before accepting a position on a biz visit visa. However, many others still go to the Kingdom on these visas, despite being warned.
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readytotravel



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you get a proper employment visa, the iqama naturally follows. You were issued a business visa and you should have done your homework before assuming you could magically get an iqama after coming here without the proper visa.
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Middle East Beast



Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 836
Location: Up a tree

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

camraman wrote:
I think it`s unfair to say teachers accept 90 day visa`s knowing they are illegal . I was hired on the promise of an ikarma , when I got here I was told they were no longer available and was put on a 90 day one . What was I supposed to do , hop on the next plane back home ?when you come here you have every right to expect that your employer will act legally . My knowledge of visas is greater now than it was when I arrived . However this is only because I knew nothing when I arrived . I`ve been her 10 months , being renewed every 120 days {there is a 30 day extesion available on a 90 day visa ].I only work for my employer ,and have been told on my request to leave after 11 months that the `1 month holiday with pay bonus `that would have been my 12 th month is not available because i`m not on the ikarma . the fact I`ve never been offered an Ikarma , is just too bad .It`s just the way it is over here


First, camraman, I'm sorry that you were duped by a Saudi employer. It is indeed commonplace now as the Saudis tighten the noose on foreign employment practices for TEFL teachers. It's disgusting. I hope that you will recover well from this travesty of justice (also commonplace in KSA). That place is nutty to put it mildly.

Regarding the issue of whether teachers know their business visas are illegal, I have to state again that the visa clearly states, "Not Permitted to Work." It couldn't be any clearer. I have one of those visas in my passport, and seeing that statement proved to me that the recruiter and the employer lied to me. That's one of the reasons I rejected their contract before I departed for the Tragic Kingdom. I was out the cost of the visa, but I would have paid a much higher price had I gotten on that plane.

For Americans I recommend that, if you have to go to KSA, go with an American company like Booz-Allen or maybe Raytheon.

MEB Cool
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