Job Discussion Forums

[Firearcher]

Ok,

I have been offered a job. The employer says to "come to China on a tourist visa" - THEN go apply for the Z Visa within China...Shanghai.

Question: Is this legal? To clarify, supposedly things will happen in this order:

1. Get a China tourist Visa
2. Go to China
3. Get the Z Visa
4. Start teaching AFTER I get the Z Visa


Is this legal?

[Firearcher]

Ok, My recruiter is telling me that "It is legal to teach / work WHILE the Z Visa is being processed.


Is this true?????

[sistercream]

Would it be legal in your home country? If not, why the heck would it be legal in China?
Take a look at the Sticky about teaching on a tourist visa.

[doogsville]

And if your in any doubt after reading sistercreams post and looking at the sticky, then to answer your question.

No, it's not legal. Your recruiter is a liar, your employer is encouraging you to work illegally and if you comply, not only will you stand a very good chance of being arrested, fined and deported, but from the moment you arrive in China you will be at the mercy of an employer who may not have a legal licence to run a school anyway, and who will have you over a barrel since they know you will be working illegally.

As to the bit about starting work after you get a Z visa, sorry, but that's not going to happen. They will put you to work the minute you arrive at the school. You cannot get a Z visa in Shanghai. Why would you need a visa to enter China, which is what the Z visa is, when you are already in China? Think about it. To get a Z visa you will have to travel to Hong Kong at the least, then stay at least one night, then travel back to the school. Are the school really going to pay for that?

If they were happy for you not to start work until you get the Z visa then they would be happy for you to stay in your home country and not work while all the paperwork is sorted out.

What will happen is you will arrive and they will give you every excuse under the sun as to why there is a "delay" in getting your Z visa. In the meantime, since they will be paying for your accommodation, or at least should be, they will expect you to work and generate income for them.

Do yourself a favour and tell them no. Ditch the recruiter, who we already know is a liar, and find yourself a proper job with a proper school that will allow you to work legally. There are plenty of them about.

[Non Sequitur]

I really do despair when I see threads on this topic launched again and again.
Even if you did arrive on a tourist visa and start teaching, odds on your 'employer' doesn't have the right to employ foreigners and thusly can't initiate the Z process.

[mike w]

Sometimes I wonder about some peoples thought processes.

Why would anyone really consider that working on a tourist visa would be legal?

[vikeologist]

You're being a little harsh. The OP had their doubts and asked the queston.

There are countries where, though it's illegal, almost every foreign English teacher is working on a tourist visa.

[Javelin of Radiance]

Maybe the moderators could unlock the sticky on "teaching on a tourist visa" so these questions could be posted or updated there.

[hilena_westb]

It's a bad sign when a person cannot read or understand the pre-prepared sticky notes on this topic. Always a bad sign of things to come.

[Non Sequitur]

Away from the stickys, there are current/recent threads well and truly putting the tourist visa thing to rest.
To state that OP was 'in doubt and asked the question' let's someone off the hook who is clearly unsuited to working in China.
He/she will be ripped off in the taxi from the airport and throughout their tenure.
How they would read their class timetable for normal classes, let alone cope with the transfer of classes to weekends prior to and after holidays, beats me.
I know for newbies just joined Dave's there is a temptation to post for the novelty.
But p-e-r-l-e-a-s-e couch the question 'Is there any possible way I can teach on a tourist visa while my proper work permit is processed',
or similar. Not vacuous repetition of something dealt with a few days ago and a few days before that blah blah.
I regularly exchange PMs with people just starting out who are struggling with the basics so they will not be flamed in the open forums. But the tourist visa thing is beyond rationality.

[Burke]

The OP must be deaf dumb and blind. His topic is probably the most discussed topic on every ESL 7 TEFL board and forum and the answers are always the same! Reading just one of these expat forums had the answer in plain sight. And all of these selfish *beep* agents have to stop putting people behind the eight ball in China. They know the score better than anyone and all they care about is getting their damn contract.

[chinatimes]

[johntpartee]

[tideout]

I'm not here to disagree with others about the clear legality/illegality of the visa situation.

The other side of this is that for some employers they simply don't have the mechanics down of hiring foreigners from abroad. I understand the costs are fairly high and it's very time consuming. Given the track record of a segment of ESL teachers to bolt when they bored one weekend or want another adventure you can't blame schools for being a bit gun-shy on the legit package up front.

I recently worked in China on an "F" visa at a school and was paid for my time w/o issue. The teachers who were there who wanted to stay all transitioned to the proper paperwork over the course of the first year.

Ironically, I was the most qualified teacher to ever start there and I was one (of a number) not to stay so having legit qualifications doesn't guarantee a teacher will remain. From the school's perspective then, the teacher they hired with the best qualifications only worked short term and they would have wasted their money on the z visa.

The point is that while the law is b&w the practices for getting employed in China do not seem to be.

Some people may not be getting hired permanently because after a few months the employer has serious doubts about the teacher's abilities.

After having worked in three other countries teaching, I must say that the "qualifications" for teaching in China seem pretty much rock bottom. For my time in China I met almost no one with a valid TESOL certificate. A couple of guys I worked with probably had faked their University diplomas and I also met a number of non-native teachers whose command of the English language was well, less than academic to put it nicely.

The recruiter - well, that's a different story. I see how manipulative they are and I'm not into wage serfdom for longer than is necessary. Recruiters do lie just for profit

I don't disagree there are risks working on a tourist visa but I have to laugh when I think of the Canadians I knew in Korea who'd been going in and out of Korea for 5+ years as "tourists". Pretty funny when even the national tourism agency there says there really isn't enough to make Korea a big stop on most people's travel itinerary!

[Non Sequitur]

I think we need to clarify the point you make about cost to schools of fully complying with the visa process.
It is my understanding that a school must qualify as a legit hirer of foreign staff. That almost certainly involves more than cost.
A school that has the right to hire foreigners and get them the appropriate permit would be crazy to avoid cost by neglecting to do so. The biggest sanction a school can have over a teacher who wants to run is to withhold the exit letter which leads to blacklisting.
They can also get cute on money owing like airfares, but that's another story.
What we have is a vicious cycle of low/no skills or quals teachers getting jobs on tourist visas and then leaving with no sanction against them.
This is why I get riled about the constant stream of posts of the 'Hey is it OK to teach on a tourist visa?' type.
It prevents qualified teachers from having some clout that would eventually help lift wage rates.