Job Discussion Forums

[Korbinos]

I'm a novice ESL teacher, working for a private company in Hai Phong, Vietnam. I'm getting restless here, especially after they've given me 35 hours these past two weeks to "make up for the lunar new year holiday" the whole country just had off.

I started working at this language center on October 3rd, so I�ve been here for almost 5 months. my pay is $1100 per month with 100 hours per month. My center has contracts with public schools around the city so for work I go and teach classes of all grades in several schools. At best I see some classes consistently once a week but my schedule is always changing from week to week. I'd love to have regular classes multiple times a week, often enough to actually get to know my students' names.

Though it seemed like a positive at first, all the lesson plans are made by the company and they are strictly based off of books used city-wide (probably nationwide). There's very little leeway in how I teach the lesson, some schools are pickier than others. The books themselves, especially the high school books are just terrible and usually beyond the students' level. Yet they are the only material I can work from. Basically I'm not much more than a regular substitute teacher, the classes don't feel like mine. the student's themselves are wonderful and surprisingly enthusiastic. It's a shame the prescribed lessons are so drab. The system is really letting them down.

What they consider a good teacher is one who is funny and entertaining. Oh and games, games games games. It's exhausting to put up a show for 4 classes in a row and another 3 in the afternoon, especially when the lessons demand heavy TTT.

I'm concerned I'm not developing as a teacher in this job. most of what I learned when I took the CELTA can't be applied here and I'm afraid I'm not much better at teaching than when I started. I want a job that challenging and rewarding mentally (as opposed to physically), something that can help me develop professional and become a quality teacher. I can say I've learned a lot about about what doesn't work...

At this time I don't see much benefit in trying to stick it out for the rest of my one-year contract, but I'm not sure what step to take next if I leave now/soon.

[Sashadroogie]

Perhaps you should ask for more specific advice on the Vietnam page, but I would advise planning to leave as soon as possible, Sounds quite awful...

[spiral78]

I'll add to what Sasha's said - it's also not likely to enhance your CV/resume for the next gig, honestly. I'd give a reasonable notice and move on asap. A potential new (and hopefully better) employer should appreciate an honest account on your part of why you left your first job early, and this discussion can also help inform you in your search for future and better jobs.

[denise]

This is a rare occasion on which I find myself disagreeing with my fellow Dave's posters.

Unless they are exploiting you--like not paying you what your contract says you should be paid; or not paying on time, with a lame excuse to explain the delay; holding your passport hostage; not giving you anything else that your contract says you should get, etc.--I'd stick it out and finish the year.

Your job sounds dreary and soul-sucking, but one year of experience (or one contract year) really isn't all that much. Being able to complete a contract in sucky (but not exploitative) working conditions is really a good sign that you can hack it as an EFL teacher. Less than a year of experience + not completing a contract can look bad on a CV. True, when you get to the interview stage of the application process, you can explain yourself, but you risk not getting to the interview stage with only five months' experience. (And talking about how bad your former school was most likely won't impress very many interviewers--you'd really have to watch your words to be as positive as possible.)

*For the record, I left a job early once. They WERE withholding pay, apologizing every month about why it was late. I gave them enough notice to finish the term and then was outta there. The school that I moved to wanted me there ASAP, but they appreciated that I didn't just abandon the old school.

d

[Sashadroogie]

There is a lot of truth in what you say, Denise, and ordinarily, I'd be in full agreement with you. But being a supply teacher who is sent scuttling from one school to another to play dancing monkey is a fairly good reason to move to another school immediately. Having gumption is a major asset, of course. But knowing that you are in the wrong job is as well, and dealing with it sooner rather than later is for the best.

Plus, 35 contact hours in multiple locations with very little DoS support, from the sounds of it, is pretty harsh for the first time out. There must be a better position somewhere nearby?

[artemisia]

I don�t know what your situation in Vietnam would be if you left a job early re: work permit or finances. It could be tricky so perhaps you need to stay until you have another position rather than just leave (?). Check what notice period is required. There�s a lot to be said for finishing a contract, but I think an employer who gives you extra teaching hours to make up for a public holiday is exploitative. Was that in your contract? I�d carefully check that point next time and make sure you know what you�re signing up for. It�s very difficult to know what�s legal or illegal in a country where you don�t speak the language or know the system, so your contract has to be the initial basis for determining a reasonable work environment.

I assume you don�t normally have 35 teaching hours a week, though (?) and so you hopefully have time to look around to see what else is available. With would-be new employers, I�d also want to keep the emphasis on the positive: how much you like the students in your current job and the kind of working relationships you�d like to be able to develop with learners. I'd also discuss teaching methods and materials you'd like to use.

As you work in various locations around the city, maybe you could research the location of other schools and drop off your CV and contact details while you're enroute to work.

[Korbinos]

Normally I've been working 25 hours a week. The contract specifically says 100 hours a month with paid days off on national holidays. For New Years I got 4 paid days off but another 6 days off unpaid since all the public schools were closed hence no possibly work to be done.

If we work over 100 hours a month we get paid overtime. For this month the company sent out a memo saying we would get paid 3/4ths salary and get paid overtime if we work more than 75 hours... which is almost impossible to do with only 12 working days this month.

Other than that they haven't really been exploitative though they sometimes try to pass of costs onto the teachers. Such as house reparations or having us pay for our own keys, but when that has happened we stand up to them and they back down. Pay is at least on time.

I'm familiar with all the other ESL companies in the city. There aren't very many here. Any of them would take me up instantly if I came to them. The demand is so high and there's such a short supply of foreign teachers. The city had it's first foreign teacher just 4 years ago. I know most of the expats in the city and the other two sizable ESL companies don't sound like preferable alternatives. One of them is downright exploitative and the foreign teachers there intend to leave together.

According to my contract I have to give 6 weeks notice. I have a 6 month working visa that's good through June so that's not an issue. If I were to leave I'd have about $1,500 dollars to live off of, which is enough to last me a long while in Vietnam but doesn't leave me much if I wanted to go to another country.

Thanks for your input , I really appreciate it

[BenE]

Share your experiences on the Vietnam forum instead. By any chance are you working for these lovely people

http://dtlc.wordpress.com/

They seem to have done very well at getting people to hate their business. I've not heard many great reports of nice schools in Haiphong but at least the air is cleaner than Hanoi.

If they say to you that it's $500 - $1000 for your work permit they are lying and basically trying to make you pay a security bond so you stay. Be careful in Haiphong and don't end up as a white slave being exploited.

[Korbinos]

Yeah, that's who I'm working for

Some of that info is outdated, we live in a different place now, that's slightly better. the working situation is spot on though. Some of the more personal stuff said there is unique to that person. I know of the guy who wrote that and the people here who had the displeasure to know him have had quite a lot tell.

to be fair they never tried to charge me for a work permit.


I posted this here because I'm not sure I want to stay in Vietnam anymore if the ESL scene is a mess throughout the country. I want to know how it compares to experiences elsewhere. I guess it should be in the Vietnam section. Can this thread be moved?

[BenE]

Well from what you said it sounds like it's a pretty difficult place to work. It might be worth it to get your first year's experience there but I will say that the pay is very low for Vietnam, even if you factor in the accommodation. It sounds like they also lead you to believe that you can't get any holidays or don't deserve any. I think most chain schools (Apollo, LL etc.) offer holidays on their contracts so this is far below the minimum standards you should expect.

I'd say it wouldn't be held too negatively against you if you left the place as they are quite well known here to be a low-rated school. I'm sure they say many bad things about the guy who set up the website about the school but it's the first school I know to have its' own hate website set up by former teachers.

[vabeckele]

I wouldn't worry about references or anything. I know what firm you are talking about and they should be paying you almost double that of what you are getting.

Move down to Hanoi and get yourself a job where you can work 10 hours a week and earn the same money. In your free-time you can look for a reputable and well paying employer. Vietnam will literally suck the blood from you if you let it. There is no need for it. I am not kidding when I tell you on the very first day of you looking for a job, you will get one and it will be better than the one you have now.

There are no unions in Vietnam, you have to look after yourself.

Learn to nip it in the bud, otherwise you will be going home soon.

pm me if you need any advice. I am in Hanoi.

Working 35 hours a week in a decent and functional country for slave wages is one thing, but I do not (c.f. johnslat) condone anyone advising teachers to put up with it out here - IT WILL NOT GET RECOGNISED!

[johnslat]

Dear vabeckele.

"Working 35 hours a week in a decent and functional country for slave wages is one thing, but I condone anyone advising teachers to put up with it out here"


Is "condone" really the word you want to use?

"con�done
/kənˈdōn/
Verb
Accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue.
Approve or sanction (something), esp. with reluctance."

If so, your post is somewhat confusing.

Regards,
John

[vabeckele]

[Sashadroogie]

Argggh, I just outright 'condemn' people. So much clearer, hic!

[Korbinos]

Well, I had put in my 6 weeks notice. They asked me to stay until the end of may to finish up the semester and in return they will give me my end-of-contract bonuses.

I'm still not sure I can last 3 more months, but it's only 1 1/2 more than if I just flat out quit (with 6 weeks notice). I also refused to work so much hours this week and got them to cut out 7 hours