Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Saudi educational system: From 'old skool' to...
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Saudi Arabia
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Saudi educational system: From 'old skool' to... Reply with quote

Interesting article. For those of you unfamiliar with the traditional ways of how Saudi students are taught, especially regarding English language learning...

Ensuring a smooth shift from school to university
by Amal Al-Sibai, Saudi Gazette | Monday, March 11, 2013
(Source: http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20130311156303 )

Making the transition from high school to university can be challenging. Students may not be accustomed to the immense amount of work that university professors expect of them. The multitude of tasks dealt out to them and the demanding schedules may seem overwhelming at first as students try to juggle between preparing for quizzes, research papers, projects, presentations, public speeches, and comprehensive final exams.

The problem with the educational process in the Kingdom, which exists to varying degrees in both public and private schools, is the high level of students� dependence on the schoolteacher. It is not uncommon for some teachers to summarize lessons, simplify tests and even highlight the exact material that will appear on tests. In the long run, this form of teaching is not helpful; rather it is detrimental to the students� ability to seek knowledge and excel at the university level. Educator and psychologist Dr. Nahla Dabbas said, �Teachers and parents should place more emphasis on deep understanding, the learning process, and the love and curiosity for learning, while concentrating less on test scores and numbers. Encourage students to read, search for information, ask questions and pay better attention during lectures, rather than simply getting excellent grades regardless of the means.�

Nonetheless, there seems to be a general consensus among students and university professors in the Kingdom that graduates from private schools are better prepared for university level work than graduates from public schools. The disparity lies not necessarily in the curriculum or the knowledge acquired in schools, or the information taught to students, or even the books. Public schools are usually found lacking (when compared to most private schools) in the set of lifestyle, studying, language, and communication skills that students are trained in.�

The students who come from public schools are weaker in their general skills and in communication skills than their peers who come from private schools. The young women who studied at private schools are more competitive, motivated, and have a higher level of self-confidence and better communication skills. The students from public schools have lower self-confidence and are unable to express themselves freely. They may have mastered the grammatical and written skills of the English language but they lag behind in their listening, speaking, comprehension and conversational skills, which no doubt will negatively impact their academic performance. More practice in schools is surely needed in the spoken English language,� said Zeba Zaidi, IT lecturer at King Abdulaziz University.

Sanna Dhahir, PhD, a professor at Effat University, agrees: �Students from private schools generally have better communication skills in English. They are better read in literature and other subjects that gives them an edge, especially at the start of their university career, over students coming from public schools. Since almost all university courses are taught in English, students coming straight from public schools are likely to experience a hard time until they manage to improve their English skills. These students usually catch up once they become more adept at the English language.� Becoming fluent and proficient in the English language was also stated as an initial obstacle for Hala Zain, a seventh-year medical student at Ibn Sina National College.

�A major problem that students in the Kingdom face is that university curriculum is taught in English, whereas the curriculum in public schools and most private schools is taught in Arabic. It was easier for the students from the private international schools to keep up with the university workload than for those of us from public schools. In this regard, students from international schools have an advantage or a head start over the rest of us. For me, in the beginning it was extremely time consuming to study and translate terms from English to Arabic in order to understand then. However, with time, lots of practice and extra hard work, I managed and eventually performed very well in theoretical and practical assessments, and I will be graduating soon,� said Zain.

Language is not the only ingredient for success. What universities all over the world want is a student who is well-rounded, skilled in a wide range of areas, and active. The ideal student is not simply the one who can retain a large volume of information and then recall and repeat it at will. Students who ask questions, take the initiative, and are innovative and well organized will no doubt get ahead.

For years, Dr. Adel Batterjee has called for enhancing the educational system in the Kingdom to foster creativity and giftedness in students and to encourage the development of essential life-skills. He introduced special enrichment programs at his privately owned school in Jeddah, Dar Al-Thikr Schools. The goals of these programs entailed stimulating a higher level of thinking, critical and analytical skills, decision making and problem solving tools, and to offer extracurricular activities that help build the students� inherent talents and hobbies.

Batterjee criticized the traditional method of teaching that involves rote learning and memorization of information and facts. In the programs which he adopted, diverse presentation styles were used to cater to the different and individual ways that students acquire knowledge, such as: conventional lectures, slide shows, visual aids, videos, pamphlets, books, open dialogue, activities, hands-on experiments, and more. By using a combination of these teaching methods, schools can reinforce the students� understanding and the actual application in real life of the knowledge gained.

Researchers at Dar Al-Thikr School conducted a study and a series of tests for the students, using a variety of assessment tools both before and after the enrichment programs were implemented. Researchers found that such programs positively affected the overall academic performance of students. The test scores showed an increase by an average of 28 percent one year after the special programs were used at the school. The cognitive, creative and scholastic abilities of students improved beyond the average, normal annual rate of improvement as a result of such methods that nurture creativity and giftedness in students. This study was the first of its kind in Saudi Arabia.

Changes must be made in both public and private schools in the Kingdom to prepare our students for university life, a productive career, and entry into the highly competitive job market. In addition to a solid educational background, students in university are also required to research, speak well in public, articulate their thoughts into clear writing, communicate well with people from all parts of the world, take notes quickly during lectures, and to be responsible and manage their time correctly. If they did not receive the adequate training to acquire these skills at school, they will no doubt fall short in university.

(End of article)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zara461



Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 58
Location: 007-Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Saudi educational system: From 'old skool' to... Reply with quote

Quote:
Nonetheless, there seems to be a general consensus among students and university professors in the Kingdom that graduates from private schools are better prepared for university level work than graduates from public schools. The disparity lies not necessarily in the curriculum or the knowledge acquired in schools, or the information taught to students, or even the books. Public schools are usually found lacking (when compared to most private schools) in the set of lifestyle, studying, language, and communication skills that students are trained in.�

The article did not give the reasons why private schools in the Magic Kingdom are doing better compared to the state ones?
Who are the majority of teachers in the private schools, Saudis or foreigners?
The majority of teachers in state schools are the national Saudis, and most of them are not qualified to teach. In addition, the Saudi educational system in primary and secondary schools is influenced by the Egyptian educational model.


Quote:
The cognitive, creative and scholastic abilities of students improved beyond the average, normal annual rate of improvement as a result of such methods that nurture creativity and giftedness in students. This study was the first of its kind in Saudi Arabia.

I wonder what is the �average� level in the Magic Kingdom.
And how do you nurture �giftedness� in students?
I think the educational system in the Magic Kingdom reflects the rigid cultural norms and way of living of the Saudis. I do not see any encouraging environment for �creativity� in their educational system at all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That read like it was someone's MA thesis summary for a Saudi in a TEFL program. All information that anyone who has taught around the Gulf for any amount of time already knows.

I would definitely disagree with this sentence:

Quote:
They may have mastered the grammatical and written skills of the English language but they lag behind in their listening, speaking, comprehension and conversational skills, which no doubt will negatively impact their academic performance.

In my 15 or so years teaching in the Middle East, I could count on the fingers of one hand... and have fingers left... the number of students that met this description. Not once did I have a student with poor conversational skills who could write a one clause grammatical sentence. Actually, not once did I meet a student whose writing skills were better than his/her speaking/listening skills. A very few were a bit better at basic grammar tests, but were unable to use that knowledge in either speaking or writing.

Their English courses are memorization courses. Memorize the grammar questions and answers... memorize a few sentences to write... memorize the reading and answers... regurgitate for the school leaving exam and forget immediately.

I had a number of Saudi students in Cairo (Saudi and other Arab). They were shocked to learn how low their skills were when they had aced all the exams in Saudi. They were unable to even get into the Foundations course without Pre-entry courses. Invariably one would say... "But Miss, in school, they gave us the book and then we took the test on the book." I had to tell them that sadly... they had learned a book... not the English language.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saudis are often shocked when they get out to the "Real World" and find how they rate against other international students. I came across a well-known language school in Edinburgh that had to run two parallel sets of classes. First stream for Saudis. Second stream for Everyone Else.

Last edited by scot47 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:58 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hatcher



Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 602

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience has been that education in the KSA has very little in common with western education. My students looked at school as time to spend with friends. When I gave them exams, many didnt even write their names on the papers and just gave me an odd look as if to say, why did you give me this? When I told their parents, they just walked away.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geronimo



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting that link, nomad soul.
I think that it's an interesting study, especially as it is claimed to be the first of its kind in Saudi Arabia.

Here's a link to an article in the same publication
by Dr. Khalid Al-Seghayer entitled:-
Teaching English in primary schools

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20121009139015

And, here is another one from just 2 days ago...
http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20130311156299

entitled - "A global language for a global Kingdom"

It is reassuring to know that TEFL-related issues are being given some serious consideration in the Kingdom! Smile

Geronimo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geronimo wrote:
I think that it's an interesting study, especially as it is claimed to be the first of its kind in Saudi Arabia.

Do you believe this claim Geronimo? Are there not education departments in Saudi universities with majors related to teaching English? They certainly existed in North Africa, the Levant, and the rest of the Gulf; who have done similar studies even back in the 80's and early 90's. What with Saudi having one of the oldest education systems in the Gulf, I find it hard to believe that they just managed to start researching and writing about this continuing situation.

It is like every couple years we have to climb on the same merry-go-round, but nothing ever gets done to change it. The Abu Dhabi (UAE) education Ministry has started working on actually changing the traditional education system starting from the bottom up with a bi-lingual program starting in kindergarten. We don't yet know how it will work. It would be a real nightmare trying to change it in a place the size of Saudi... tough to find enough teachers to do it. Not to mention the money.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geronimo



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In response to your question about Dr Adel Batterjee's study, VS ,
I'm unaware of any Masters degrees programs being run by Saudi Arabian universities' faculties inside the Kingdom.
Several Saudi Unis have 'English Language' programs within their Humanities faculty,
but are they accredited to run post-grad TESOL-realted courses?

The article's 'first of its kind' comment interested me because it is suggestive of the'powers-that-be' regarding the study as being authoritative,
and it's possible to infer that more studies 'of its kind'
may be expected to ensue.

Here's a link to "The Efficacy of the Total Giftedness Development Model" by Adel A. Batterjee:-

http://www.kfu.edu.sa/ar/Centers/CreativityUnit/Documents/research/sec/adel.pdf

Is this the same Adel A. Batterjee who was a friend of Osama bin Laden
back in the day?

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20130126150630 and

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2013/sc10884.doc.htm

Geronimo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geronimo wrote:
I'm unaware of any Masters degrees programs being run by Saudi Arabian universities' faculties inside the Kingdom.
Several Saudi Unis have 'English Language' programs within their Humanities faculty, but are they accredited to run post-grad TESOL-realted courses?

A sad statement if this is the first "hint" they have had of a problem that has existed and been discussed widely in the field since the early 80's at least.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geronimo



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those interested in the enhancing of "giftedness",
the Dar Al-Thikr Schools have their own youtube channel...

http://www.youtube.com/user/DarAlthikr1

Geronimo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zara461



Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 58
Location: 007-Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The youtubes in the link are all in Arabic, and did not find anything which is related to "giftedness"!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Zara461,

In Saudi, just HAVING your "own youtube channel" probably qualifies you to be considered "gifted." Very Happy

Regards,
John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geronimo



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here, especially for Zara461 , are links to 2 videos of Dar Al Thikr students
presenting in English....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60MMMTPkFQA
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhieZwX-IgI

The Dar Al Thikr school is taking part in the
Mawhiba School Partnership Initiative.
I believe that 'Mawhiba' means 'gift' or 'talent'. Anyway,
the background to this major project is available in English at ...

http://www.mawhiba.org/MawhibaPrograms/SchoolPartner/Documents/Handbook%20for%20Outstanding%20MTA%20and%20Outstanding%20MLTA.pdf

Geronimo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zara461



Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 58
Location: 007-Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I wonder how many teachers gained the prestigious status of Outstanding
Mawhiba Teacher (OMT) in the private Mawhiba schools of the Magic Kingdom?
And is this OMT award recognized or accredited by the Ministry of Education of the Magic Kingdom?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geronimo



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So, I wonder how many teachers gained the prestigious status of Outstanding Mawhiba Teacher (OMT) in the private Mawhiba schools of the Magic Kingdom?


I don't think that there were many, Zara461!

The 'Gifted Phoenix' provides further background on the OMTA at
http://giftedphoenix.wordpress.com/tag/mawhiba/
and quotes another blogger who is or was an OMTA assessor:

Last year only 3 out of 30 candidates won this award as they have to meet international standards.
Thank goodness the final OMTA decisions are made back in the UK
as I have to work with the Dammam teachers after the fact.�


Geronimo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Saudi Arabia All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China