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Swearing around students
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jaffa



Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's always fun to teach them 'bloody' - inoffensive and very common in British/Ozzie/Kiwi English. Americans, of course, won't have the faintest bloody idea what you're going on about.

When you hear students using it perfectly, you know you're doing something right. That's my theory anyway.
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kev7161



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a web page that will show you how to use a certain curse word AND how to use it in grammatically correct ways. Two birds with one stone sort of thing:

http://justin.justnet.com.au/rudestuff/uses-of-the-word-f**k.html

(note: please edit the link - - take out the ** and add, well, you know)
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Timer



Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Posts: 173
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I limit my swearing to "crap" in class. Around students outside of class I'd up it to "shit" unless I know them really well in which case I'd be more relaxed with it. I want my students to be comfortable and at ease in the classroom, but there needs to be a limit.

All the students I have taught don't have good enough English for me to start going into stuff like slang or swearing. A lesson on swear words would be a waste of time really.
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Americans, of course, won't have the faintest bloody idea what you're going on about.


With Hugh Grant as a tutor on the silver screen, bugger is bloody well known.
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rogerwilco



Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1549

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa wrote:
It's always fun to teach them 'bloody' - inoffensive and very common in British/Ozzie/Kiwi English. Americans, of course, won't have the faintest bloody idea what you're going on about.


Rolling Eyes


Most Americans with experience outside of America, like those of us in China, do understand British slang.
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xiguagua



Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 768

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timer wrote:
I limit my swearing to "crap" in class. Around students outside of class I'd up it to "shit" unless I know them really well in which case I'd be more relaxed with it. I want my students to be comfortable and at ease in the classroom, but there needs to be a limit.

All the students I have taught don't have good enough English for me to start going into stuff like slang or swearing. A lesson on swear words would be a waste of time really.


This is what I used to do, the problem is when I would say "crap" or as a tribute to my UK friends "bollocks" or one of the many alternatives for swearing, it did nothing but make people even more confused. They know the bad words, but they don't know the childish alternatives.

Substituting garbage for "shit" is easy enough, but what about when i'm complaining about all the human produced fecal matter that I stepped in on the street? Maybe it's laziness, but trying to explain what "poop" or "poopoo" or something like that is, it's just easier to say "shit" and they'll understand. I think the thing is, when i'm just hanging out with some students or friends outside of class, I need a break from making everything an English lesson.
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DanDoesESL



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had several "F**k you"'s after not replying to "HALLLLLLOOOOO". Yeah, that'll make me want to talk to you more.

That being said, slang terms could be a fun english corner topic, if not a particularly productive lesson.
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kungfuman



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of my students will go to the US or Canada when they finish. They swear and know all the words - from watching US television (cable) or movies and playing Xbox or Ps3 games.

Nothing new I could tell them.

I try not to use bad words in front of them but it happens sometimes.
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hilena_westb



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Swearing around students Reply with quote

xiguagua wrote:
So i'm curious to see what peoples opinions are about swearing around students. Not swearing AT students, but just swearing during informal conversation outside of class.

I have known teachers that have created entire LESSONS on swearing, even going as far as having the students shout out swears in class. Personally, I would never teach such a class as I see it as completely unprofessional and frankly disgusting, BUT I do tend to swear around students in informal situations outside of class.

What's interesting is at home, I do not swear, but after I came to China, I've seen so many students trying their hardest to swear (good students trying to be more natural.....not talking about the HALLOOOO's) and most of them do not use the swears correctly. I figured that if they're going to swear (and yes, they are going to swear) they need to at least know how to use the words properly, and understand where and when it is acceptable.

What are you guys' opinions/experiences on it?


So-called "swear words" are actually in any dictionary and therefore, according to me, usable as everyday vocabulary. They are part of my normal, daily spoken English; some days more than others. Live in the real world folks and stop this "PC" garbage and realize, words are words; nothign more, nothing less.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if your students will be going abroad, it's very important that they know
the difference between the hollywood version of life and reality.

sure, they've heard cursing in the movies, and swear words in the rap
songs. doesn't mean that language is appropriate for daily life.
regardless, they are unlikely to use them in the proper context.

i don't care what richard pryor says...........you repeat that crap when
you get to los angeles and you're toast.
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xiguagua



Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 768

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Swearing around students Reply with quote

hilena_westb wrote:


So-called "swear words" are actually in any dictionary and therefore, according to me, usable as everyday vocabulary. They are part of my normal, daily spoken English; some days more than others. Live in the real world folks and stop this "PC" garbage and realize, words are words; nothign more, nothing less.


Probably the dumbest argument so far, typical from Hilena. Regardless of your personal thoughts on swearing, other people do not share your ignorant views. The N-word is in the dictionary too, feel free to go anywhere in the southern United States and running around shouting it and see how far you get with the "Words are harmless" defense Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Not the case with everyone in China.....but sometimes you just meet someone so dumb you think to yourself "yeah.......I understand why you're here."
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Denim-Maniac



Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you were making a list of all the problems a set group of students have, I think you'd need quite a long piece of paper. And I also think the category 'Is a bit rubbish at cursing' would be right at the bottom of said list (or not worthy of inclusion on the list).

As a result, common sense would dictate 101 things you might want to address before you worry about how well students swear. Thats nothing to do with political correctness.
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sPinkomania



Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My main rule there is making sure my students don't get beat-up if they go abroad by screwing up their swearing!

I remember in Kunming I saw the following graffiti on the wall and thought it was a laugh "Son of my bitch". Is that what you say to your son when you're unhappy with your wife?

I've had students ask me what 'Shit' or '*beep* you' is in a pretty straightforward manner. I usually just brush it off, tell them not to say it in my class and I don't focus on it. For adults I have never taught it, but I bring up inappropriate language when someone is saying something they shouldn't like mistaking bitch with beach. Or the 'cock' thing.

I even had 'I am here to service you', or 'You can service these women' which I assume must make sense when they translated the sentence from Chinese but it just sounds a little uh, suggestive, so I explained it...Awkwardly. Anything that people might really take the piss out of for saying if they went to the West, I correct.
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7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xiguagua wrote:
hilena_westb wrote:


So-called "swear words" are actually in any dictionary and therefore, according to me, usable as everyday vocabulary. They are part of my normal, daily spoken English; some days more than others. Live in the real world folks and stop this "PC" garbage and realize, words are words; nothign more, nothing less.

Probably the dumbest argument so far, typical from Hilena. Regardless of your personal thoughts on swearing, other people do not share your ignorant views. The N-word is in the dictionary too, feel free to go anywhere in the southern United States and running around shouting it and see how far you get with the "Words are harmless" defense Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Your scenario above and the fact that these words are in the dictionary would seem to be perfect examples of why students should be given some instruction and historical background on such words, and others. Your students already know these words from watching movies and they use them, might as well give them a class on how and when to use them (and when not to) so as to avoid problems in future. Some will say "well they won't heed my advice and will still end up in trouble." Maybe, but for some that's probably inevitable anyway. At least you made an effort to enlighten them.

Coincidentally I'm having a discussion this week in my class - Should or shouldn't "bad" words be taught in an English class? We discuss and share our ideas in class and over the next week their task is to write a short essay expressing their personal viewpoint on the question. For those of you who complain about your students showing no interest in your lessons, this topic at least gets them more lively and interested for awhile.

Here are a few bullet points from our discussion so far this week:

Bad Words Should be Taught


1. Students imitate what they hear in movies/TV;
a. Teaching �bad� words can teach correct usage;
b. Right time and place for their use;

2. All a part of everyday English;
a. Essential to understanding and speaking better (or more colloquially);

3. �Bad� words have many uses;
a. Can show excitement, anger, surprise, disgust.

Bad Words Should not be Taught

4. Students don�t need this knowledge.

5. For younger learners, parents disagree with subject matter;
a. Bad language may affect behaviour;
b. Morally wrong.

6. These words may be over-used;
a. Students may use words too often/in wrong situation;
b. Can offend others.
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it'snotmyfault



Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 527

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd still just concentrate on what I consider far more important issues. There's so many things that could be being taught that are far more useful than bad language IMO.

I don't feel the need to swear in Chinese and I can't see how being able to swear proficiently or recognising swearing and colloquial insults in Chinese would make life any easier for me.
If anything it would probably lead to more problems.
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