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demitrescou
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 122
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 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| I am personally a bit tired of the assumptions that anyone and their dog should be allowed to teach English because they speak it. I expect my French teachers to have qualifications and experience too. I was recently taught by an unqualified French teacher and I wasted a LOT of money for my child's daycare, and then paid an exit fee to drop out. |
I know it's frustrating but I personally don't agree that qualifications are so important when you're teaching at a rudimentary level AND you're provided with an appropriate syllabus/course to follow, AND you're not a moron and are able to motivate and establish a good rapport with students. Teaching the basics like she/he would be doing somewhere in China/Korea doesn't need anything more than the right attitude and common sense.
The good thing about the qualifications is that it'll weed out the morons because morons won't bother doing the qualifications in the first place. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| demitrescou wrote: |
| Teaching the basics like she/he would be doing somewhere in China/Korea doesn't need anything more than the right attitude and common sense. |
That is utter foolishness / the ultimate oxymoron... the uneducated educator and as we all know; there is NOTHING common about common sense.
It always amazes me that people who don't value education enough to actually get one think that for some reason they should be allowed to become an educator and think they can actually teach.
| demitrescou wrote: |
| The good thing about the qualifications is that it'll weed out the morons because morons won't bother doing the qualifications in the first place. |
Too true.
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revenger2013
Joined: 01 Mar 2013
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| tttompatz wrote: |
| demitrescou wrote: |
| Teaching the basics like she/he would be doing somewhere in China/Korea doesn't need anything more than the right attitude and common sense. |
That is utter foolishness / the ultimate oxymoron... the uneducated educator and as we all know; there is NOTHING common about common sense.
It always amazes me that people who don't value education enough to actually get one think that for some reason they should be allowed to become an educator and think they can actually teach.
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The gentleman in question doesn't rate our trade very highly Ttom. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:25 am Post subject: |
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I wonder how much of this attitude of 'no qualifications needed, native speaker is sufficient' is really just remnants of the criteria a few decades back.
We've had some conversation recently at the school where I teach about how, 20 years ago, they hired 'street teachers,' those guys who came to this then-trendy, romantic city to write a novel and taught English on the side for beer and rent money.
It used to be the norm here, and I reckon probably everywhere, right?!
Anyway, we'd unearthed some old cartons of materials and student papers generated back then. We see it as utterly appalling now, but back then, well, what'd they have to compare?
Anyway, thankfully the job's evolved significantly over the past two decades and standards have been rising everywhere (perhaps faster some places than others).
And the reality is that, no matter what our OP's personal opinion regarding concrete need for qualifications may be, it's becoming less and less likely that the unqualified will find jobs, in a global sense. |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| demitrescou wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I am personally a bit tired of the assumptions that anyone and their dog should be allowed to teach English because they speak it. I expect my French teachers to have qualifications and experience too. I was recently taught by an unqualified French teacher and I wasted a LOT of money for my child's daycare, and then paid an exit fee to drop out. |
I know it's frustrating but I personally don't agree that qualifications are so important when you're teaching at a rudimentary level AND you're provided with an appropriate syllabus/course to follow, AND you're not a moron and are able to motivate and establish a good rapport with students. Teaching the basics like she/he would be doing somewhere in China/Korea doesn't need anything more than the right attitude and common sense.
The good thing about the qualifications is that it'll weed out the morons because morons won't bother doing the qualifications in the first place. |
There are some markets around this world that where qualifications don't matter and many employers and students in China or Korea would agree with you.
I would personally argue that just because some countries/markets accept low/no qualifications to teach students , does not mean that qualifications don't matter. Perhaps it just means that students in those countries/markets are short changed on their education because the demand for native speakers is so high that their school will take any Tom, Dick, and Harry.
But the OP was talking specifically about the UAE, where a teacher's license and/or MA TESOL with experience is the requirement. For a woman to head to the ME with a high school diploma and a child to teach English is a foolish prospect. OP didn't like that, but that is the truth. |
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demitrescou
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:50 am Post subject: |
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That is utter foolishness / the ultimate oxymoron... the uneducated educator and as we all know; there is NOTHING common about common sense.
It always amazes me that people who don't value education enough to actually get one think that for some reason they should be allowed to become an educator and think they can actually teach. |
Ttom, I still disagree. I've got nothing more than an unrelated degree and a CELTA and I'm good at what I do. I'm honest enough with myself to know when I'm good at something and when I'm not. I would be just as good without the CELTA - it really didn't do much for me. The on-the-job in class experience taught me what I need to know.
I think you're being a bit pretentious about what it takes to do this job. On the other hand you may be teaching really high level material where the level of English is already high and hence you have to know much more than most of us in this business. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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So in your opinion someone with:
a high school completion (quite possibly as little as 10th grade English actually completed),
no experience,
and an on-line TEFL (the only kind you can get in Canada without post secondary education) is qualified to teach high school English in the UAE?
As a parent, would you want someone with lower academic credentials than your child, working as your child's teacher?
Again it begs the question, "Why would someone who doesn't value education enough to actually get one be taken seriously when they "claim to be / think they are" qualified to be an educator?"
The perfect oxymoron.
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demitrescou
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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So in your opinion someone with:
a high school completion (quite possibly as little as 10th grade English actually completed),
no experience,
and an on-line TEFL (the only kind you can get in Canada without post secondary education) is qualified to teach high school English in the UAE? |
Come on Ttom, you know that's not quite the angle I was coming from.
Maybe because of where you are in the profession you've forgotten what it means to be a run-of-the-mill teacher in a Chinese/Korean Hagwon. Getting kids reading from their books and holding up flashcards saying cat/dog/cock/clock, doesn't need a CELTA, MA, or phd.
As I said above I think the qualifications are only important at this level for weeding out the morons. NOT because the CELTA is going to make them better teachers but because a chump with no interest in his/her students actually learning won't bother going through with the CELTA. |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Why does China or Korea matter? This thread was about the UAE. The UAE generally has the same requirements as here in North America. Why should UAE parents/students accept being taught by an instructor who does not even meet the bare minimum requirements for that particular location?
A native speaker might be a novelty in some parts of Asia but it's not a novelty in other places. Some places don't give a rat's behind that someone looks like what an English teacher "should look like" and can fly through visa requirements. They care more about qualifications, and they should be allowed to care. They are paying for it, after all.
Prior to teaching, I worked for the RCMP here in Canada. The standards were much higher than in most places in the United States. Just because someone can get a job as a cop in Alabama with a PT requirement of 10 situps and a high school diploma doesn't mean they can get away with it here. Expectations here are different. Does that make the Alabama cop a bad cop? No, that's an individual issue. |
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demitrescou
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Why does China or Korea matter? This thread was about the UAE. The UAE generally has the same requirements as here in North America. Why should UAE parents/students accept being taught by an instructor who does not even meet the bare minimum requirements for that particular location? |
Fair enough.
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| Why does China or Korea matter? |
Racist
Pfff I can do at least 20.
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| A native speaker might be a novelty in some parts of Asia but it's not a novelty in other places. |
Are you condoning colonialism? |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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What do you mean by racism and colonialism? Are you joking? I can't tell over typing.
Why do hiring standards in Korea and China matter when we're talking qualifications for teaching in the UAE? |
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demitrescou
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| What do you mean by racism and colonialism? Are you joking? I can't tell over typing. |
Extract from Oxford English Dictionary:
Racist - You don't like blacks or members of another race (presuming you're white)
Colonialism - You want ________(insert your country) to rule the world.
Of course I'm joking Santi. British humour, forgive me.
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| Why do hiring standards in Korea and China matter when we're talking qualifications for teaching in the UAE? |
You got me. I forgot she was talking about UAE. I was just talking about places like Korea/China. |
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revenger2013
Joined: 01 Mar 2013
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| demitrescou wrote: |
Of course I'm joking Santi. British humour, forgive me.
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Yeah, we can see you are a right laugh a minute you are!  |
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