Job Discussion Forums

[powerpuffgirl]

Dear Teachers in Prep year Programs in KSA

How does one deal with the inevitable differences in teaching styles and methods between non native and native speakers here in KSA?

What if your line manager is NN and wants things done in a particular way which doesnt align with your knowledge, skills and experience? Any tips appreciated

[scot47]

Strange situation at KFUPM. All PYP and College English teachers are Native Speakers, (as are supervisors) 99% of subject teachers are NNS. So after a couple of semesters in PYP students are exposed to subject teaching by Bangladfeshis, Pakistanis. Egyptians and Saudis.

World Englishes ?

[fledex]

Deal with it in the same way you would deal with any boss that has a different opinion or methodology from you. I don't see what native or non-native speaking has to do with it. Even the distinction itself is a gray area.

[powerpuffgirl]

fledex i am not saying Teachers from countries that are not English speaking are in any way inferior to teachers from English speaking countries. I am talking about the cultural learning and teaching contexts. In my own experience I have found plagiarism, spoon feeding , difficult to swallow [ excuse the pun ] as I know it doesn't help the students in the long term to become independent learners.

Teaching EFL is not the same as any other job as the culture and language are related. you just posted on another thread that culture and grammar are intertwined, so don't teach English if you don't want to spread the culture?

I think to survive in KSA i will have to follow " When in Rome .. . ."

[spiral78]

[johnslat]

Dear spiral,

"Independence is not expected . . ."

True enough in the main - but there are always a few "rebels" (thank goodness) who are attracted by "forbidden fruit."

Regards,
John

[spiral78]

Dear john:

Yes, I've encountered a few of these.
In my experience, mostly female, and all a wonderful breath of fresh air.

Best,
spiral

[desert_traveller]

Anybody seriously claiming that the English language is still in some ways tied to the so-called 'English-speaking countries', their people or 'culture' (what exactly is the culture of London like nowadays?) urgently need to catch up with the realities of the current use of the English language (or rather, the varieties of the English language), and sooner or later admit that they have become a minority. Once this stage reached, the labels 'native' and 'non-native', absolutely ridiculous in themselves anyways since language is always acquired and never 'native', quickly lose meaning and fade into oblivion. Unfortunately, in an anti-profession such as what the TEFL farce has become during the past few decades, where anyone with a 4-week certificate can assume the job title of a 'teacher' (what an offence to properly qualified teachers!), where citizenship is for some (or, rather, for many) the most treasured 'qualification' that they can put on their CV, there will always be currents of thought trying to retain the distinction between native and non-native teachers, for blatantly obvious expected advantages in the job market. So, in this respect, I see little hope for 'non-native' teachers to get acknowledged, and for questions like the one in the opening post, reeking of a unique but well-known mixture of ignorance and arrogance, to disappear.

[johnslat]

Clearly, the logical thing to do would be to employ the best person for the job, be they NS or NNS or whatever.

As you (and Mr. Spock) may have noticed, though, we humans are not often logical.

Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

In my experience, the native versus non-native "problem" came from employers and students - not us teachers. As a teacher, I quickly noted that whether a teacher was good or bad had nothing to do with their NS or NNS status.

VS

[Captain Willard]

Well, in some English speaking countries, its people are educated not only how to speak the language, but also how to write it. Many old, formal rules of English grammar are no longer taught in many places, such as the government funded schools in the UK. Still, teachers who can write without rambling comma splices and run-on sentences are usually preferred over those who can't for teaching composition and writing. Those who can't write coherently think the distinction is absolutely ridiculous.

Sometimes non-native speakers acquire these skills, which some native speakers lack. However, the native speaker is frequently prized for his or her accent as much as for linguistic knowledge. In the end, ESL teacher hiring and salaries are determined by the laws of economics, i.e., supply and demand, and frequently not fairness.

[powerpuffgirl]

Desert-traveller

Before you indirectly label people as ignorant, arrogant and unqualified please take the time to understand my OP and the one following that.

I am not talking about English language knowledge/ skills- rather about plagiarism, spoon feeding ( as I posted before) and other examples such as overlooking cheating. I said these things can be difficult to get used to as the "norm".

I will add that it can be an issue not just for English language teachers but teachers of all subjects who are expats.

[revenger2013]

[fledex]

In my experience (which spans quite a few decades), I have more often found most English L2 or L3 teachers to be more effective ESL teachers than most English L1 teachers. Even that distinction is as much a gray area as native and non-native. It's just another contrived categorization, like "race" or "culture", used to gain economic advantages.

With the Spanish language, I've found the same.

[revenger2013]