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Sashadroogie

... or how much guilt should you feel? Is the work we do as TEFL teachers destroying linguistic diversity? Are we in danger of reducing large swathes of the globe to monolingual conformity? Look at this quotation below, from one of the greatest novels in the English language, to see the possible fate of L1: natives in their own land who do not speak their own language anymore.

Should we shudder? Or celebrate?

Stephen listened in scornful silence. She bows her old head to a voice
that speaks to her loudly, her bonesetter, her medicineman: me she
slights. To the voice that will shrive and oil for the grave all there
is of her but her woman's unclean loins, of man's flesh made not in
God's likeness, the serpent's prey. And to the loud voice that now bids
her be silent with wondering unsteady eyes.

--Do you understand what he says? Stephen asked her.

--Is it French you are talking, sir? the old woman said to Haines.

Haines spoke to her again a longer speech, confidently.

--Irish, Buck Mulligan said. Is there Gaelic on you?

--I thought it was Irish, she said, by the sound of it. Are you from the
west, sir?

--I am an Englishman, Haines answered.

--He's English, Buck Mulligan said, and he thinks we ought to speak
Irish in Ireland.

--Sure we ought to, the old woman said, and I'm ashamed I don't speak
the language myself. I'm told it's a grand language by them that knows.

--Grand is no name for it, said Buck Mulligan. Wonderful entirely. Fill
us out some more tea, Kinch. Would you like a cup, ma'am?

ULYSSES

by James Joyce

demitrescou · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 122

Sashadroogie · Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:23 pm Post subject:

So you feel no guilt then?

Any other voices going to contribute?

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

The Dutch example would indicate that there's little to fear.
Most Dutch natives from middle age down speak functional English (more or less), but they can still speak Dutch fluently Laughing

. Moreover, they show few signs of losing their cultural identity; they haven't become much like Americans or Canadians or the English or (other Anglophone identity).

johnslat · Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject:

Dear Sasha,

I was raised Catholic, so naturally (or unnaturally), I feel guilt for (I thought) EVERYTHING - from the extinction of the Neanderthals to "climate change."

However, I must congratulate you for having added a fresh, new item for me to feel guilty about.

How can I ever thank you enough? (Well, I can't - of course. Yet ANOTHER thing to feel guilty about.)

Regards,
Guilty - innocent isn't an option - John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject:

Thanks guys!

I feel this is a matter of grave importance. Worthy of some thought over a few shots. And then maybe some more. Of both. In addition, I have managed to post an extract from Ulysses, and somehow make it relevant to TEFL. Please give pats on back, hic!

Interesting remark, in relation to the Dutch, about language and cultural identity. I am not convinced that the two are as interdependent as is often made out. Perhaps a topic for another thread. Or maybe this one. Oh, I dunno anymore!

I need to drink it over...

revenger2013 · Joined: 01 Mar 2013 Posts: 111

No, I think whatever languages are alive today will stay that way. Colonialism killed off languages in modern times where more powerful colonial powers such as the English in Ireland, made direct attempts to eradicate the local language through force.

And you'll never have big populations speaking Welsh, Basque, Estonian anyway but as long there are laws, schools, tv stations, printed media and radio catering to those languages then they will always stay alive.

Loan words from English might change a language and its traditional character somewhat - like Korean has a lot of recent loanwords from English, but I don't think the spread of English is going to kill off any more languages outside the barrel of a gun.

revenger2013 · Joined: 01 Mar 2013 Posts: 111

Forgot to answer the question - guilt? No, I am supplying a demand. If people want to learn English then they are going to learn it anyway so I might as well be there to teach them rather than they learn English from a Linguaphone box set. If we all withdraw our labour tomorrow then people will still learn English, we aren't that important in this particular schemata.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject:

Interesting comments. Cheers.

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

santi84 · Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 1317 Location: under da sea

The government of Quebec would agree with you 100% Cool

Where I live, if you cannot speak anglais fonctionnel, you are eliminated from most jobs, from high finance to a cashier at the gas station.

English is taking over. The youth of Quebec love Hollywood, the internet, and have a desire to get out of their province and explore. Am I contributing to the downfall? Yes, but as others have mentioned, I'm only giving the masses what they want (which is an arguement drug cultivators also use!).

You have to try very hard to find any under-30 in Quebec who cannot speak functional English. My neighbour is one of them and she refuses to learn English, so we banter in French through the fences. She's the real deal! Very Happy

Sashadroogie · Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject:

Tsk tsk, Denise. Some re-education in store for you. Can't sound like John Charles McQuaid C.S.Sp. in this day and age....

demitrescou · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 122

I made the conscious decision around 2008 to learn Greek fluently because I thought it was destined to become the new no.1 world language within 10 years, give or take a couple.

However, as we get closer to my target date I'm starting to feel that by 2018 Greece and all her islands might just be German state by then and Greek will be phased out completely.

Cool Teacher · Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:09 pm Post subject:

No guilt form me because if you think about it people don't stop speaking their language just because we teach it. If you learn another language that is not killing English. I think it was bade once before when Welsh speakers were forbideen from using Welsh but these days it is compulsory for many Welsh people to learn Welsh even thought it has not much use. The same for Irish and Manx. Cool

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

I think so, but at the school where I work, we would like to offer German and other languages, but there just isn't the demand. Sure I can find 6 or 10 would-be German speakers, but they are mainly at different levels.

With my (rather battered and dirty) careers adviser's hat on, I would like different schools to offer Estonian, Turkish, Japanese etc so that a small group of people each year will emerge with specialist skills. But people will apply for what they see as a safe bet, English.