Job Discussion Forums

[mcloo7]

For newbies who want to start in China, but dont have a clue as to how to pick a place to live. I already have some idea for myself, after looking into it for awhile, but it would still be helpful to know some more places.

I know people will say it depends on the person. That's a given. So lets just list some places where you've enjoyed living.

[rogerwilco]

I have spent a lot of time in Shanghai, Shenzhen, Nanjing, Suzhou, and Hangzhou.
Any of those cities, except for Shanghai, is OK for me to live and work.
Shanghai is just too big and crowded for me.

[Non Sequitur]

Dalian and Qingdao get my votes.

[SledgeCleaver]

Can anybody give any tips on which cities are the most bike-friendly? I suppose this would mean a combination of:
1. Reasonable pollution (vital)
2. Non-crazy drivers/not too much traffic (vital)
3. Decent roads (important)
4. Bike lanes or even paths (a luxury perhaps, but may as well mention it)
5. Ability to take longer rides outside of the city on decent roads (also a bit of a luxury)

[rogerwilco]

[SledgeCleaver]

[7969]

[doogsville]

There are a lot of greenways here in Zhuhai. I cycle to and from work and also for fun most days. It's pretty horrible during rush hour, but if you can avoid that you're okay. There are a couple of places you can go offroad, and there's a few high end bike shops. You often see groups of people clad head to toe in lycra with pretty expensive bikes going round the greenways at weekends, in the evenings and lunchtimes. Ebikes and motorbikes are, in theory, banned from most of the city. What that means in practice is that there are far fewer of them than in most cities, though they do exist.

The city government has recently implemented a bike rental scheme, with about 200 stations all over the city, where you can take a bike from one and leave it in another. There's a 300 kuai deposit, and they plan to have around 600 bike stations and close to 10,000 bikes by the end of next year.

It's no Amsterdam, but it's a more bike friendly city than most of the other European cities I've been in. If you don't ride like a maniac and take chances, you should live a long and happy life. Oh, and the pollution here is not too bad either.

[dean_a_jones]

I enjoy, for the most part, living in Wuhan, where I have been for the last four years. For now, I will just give a few shorter reasons why I enjoy the city. For detailed information about the place, search Wuhan or my previous posts, I usually comment when someone asks.

Wuhan is big, dirty, crowded and does not have the best reputation from what I can gather. I should first say I am a city person and don't mind crowded busy places (New York and London are my favourite cities).

I like Wuhan because it is constantly evolving and changing, although this is like many if not most Chinese cities, especially inland east coast cities. I find the "real China" concept a bit stupid, but do find that, if you are reading about China in the news everyday and wanting to experience what you hear about, Wuhan is probably not a bad place to be (the other "RC" people seem to be looking for is a historical concept that is rapidly becoming extinct if not already so). Wuhan is in the throes of rapid development and, for better or worse, it makes it a fascinating place to spend a few years. The people here have not quite caught up to the level of their more cosmopolitan counterparts in the cities east that developed 5 - 10 years earlier, which is also interesting.

It is a massive university city--according to wikipedia (which is not always trustworthy and in this case links to a Chinese article), Wuhan had the largest number of enrolled college students in the world in 2011. Much of this is concentrated in Wuchang, where I live. This brings the benefit of lots of young people, businesses that cater to them (lots of interesting, cheap food, for example), international students and plenty of large green spaces for strolling and sports in what would otherwise be a bleak expanse of concrete. All of this gives the city a vibrant feel, lots of energy and plenty of friendly folks around (and, if it is your thing, a pretty sizable expat community of teachers).

The other thing that makes Wuhan great is its location, as it is quite easy to travel around. Now, with the massive expansion of the high speed rail system and relatively cheap flights, it is actually pretty easy to get around from anywhere these days. Wuhan is nice because it is relatively central, and a cheaper bunk on the night train can mean you can get to many cities in around 8 or 9 hours, which makes weekend excursions or short trips really easy to do.

The downsides: a bit of a lack of culture, especially events that cater to non-Chinese speakers; all of the construction, and the disruption and pollution it causes; the weather (really cold winters+poorly constructed buildings, really hot summers).

[GreatApe]

I wouldn't say it depends so much on the person as it depends on THE JOB, but that's just my opinion, man.

For me, I'm happiest when I'm content with what I'm doing in terms of my job and my career. Because I work 5 days a week for 9 to 10 months out of the year, it's more important for me to be happy with my job, rather than my location. I'll live where I want to live if (and when) I retire.

As for places I've enjoyed living and working?

1). Huizhou in Guangdong province is listed as a Tier 3 city. The population is around 1.5 million and the people there are very friendly. I think it was #7 on a recent "Top Friendly Cities in China" list. The taxi drivers there use their meters and are generally honest and helpful. The people are quick to smile and are kind. The girls are beautiful. Then again, I'm biased ... I met my fiancee in Huizhou, although she is originally from Sichuan. Regardless, in my opinion Huizhou seems to have a disproportionate amount of gorgeous girls living there. I don't know why, and I've spent some time I can never get back thinking about it. Hell, maybe it's just me!

There are some decent jobs in Huizhou too, although it's short on university gigs. Salaries at Language Mills tend to be around 6,500 to 8,500 RMB. The cost of living is not very high. There are western style restaurants, etc. Overall, I enjoy Huizhou and I still visit several times a month. There's some good hotels there and it's a relaxing place to spend a weekend. Having said that, Huizhou is a bit of a "concrete jungle" ... unless you're willing to actively invest the time and money (and effort) in getting out of the city limits.

2). Yangshuo in Guangxi province is really a town, not a city. It's a beautiful place with lots of things to do. I lived there for a little over a year and generally enjoyed it. Lots of hiking and biking and long motorcycle rides out into the surrounding countryside. River rafting, Secret Beach, West Street. Yangshuo has a lot to offer, although the town can feel a bit too "incestuous" at times in terms of jobs and salary, and living there during Chinese holidays can be a nightmare. I returned to "Yangers" for the first time since I moved for the last National Day holiday. That was 3 days I can NEVER get back! The holiday tourist population has sky-rocketed since I lived there.

I was never really able to save any appreciable amount of money working on 5,000 to 6,000 RMB a month in Yangshuo, although I know a few foreigners there who have managed to save a bit and I had roughly 7,000 RMB when I moved back to Guangdong. Teaching in Yangshuo was a great experience. As for shopping? Living in Yangers introduced me to the three price system. There are 1) prices for Locals, 2) prices for Tourists and prices for "Lao Wai." Sometimes #2 and #3 are the same. Even after living in Yangshuo for more than a year, I still had to barter much more than I enjoyed in order not to get stiffed. I tended to shop where they knew me, and where I knew they would not try to rip me off.

3). Dongguan in Guangdong province. Yeah! ... I KNOW! ... most people on Dave's constantly rip Dongguan for being a factory and prostitute-filled wasteland. In my opinion? ... not so much! It's a big city with many districts and towns. Dongcheng district is where most foreigners live and work and it's a nice part of the city. Good shopping, good restaurants, lots of foreign faces.

I live close to ShiLong town. There's a high speed train station there with great access to Guangzhou and beyond and Shenzhen and beyond. It's not very difficult to use the DG bus system once you invest some time learning it.

Again, I live where I live because I have a good job. I admit to "escaping" Dongguan one or two weekends each month when the opportunity presents itself. However, I live on a beautiful school campus (birds, trees, greenery, river, mosquitoes, etc.), so the work week is enjoyable for me. I travel to different parts of Dongguan several times a month for shopping or just to get out and stretch my legs.

The people in Dongguan are --generally-- transient by nature. They're also here for the work. I won't say the people in Dongguan are overly-friendly, because they're not. There's a marked difference between the people in Dongguan and the people in Huizhou, although they're only about 65 kilometres apart. Riding the bus in DG can be a stare-fest for a Lao Wai, but that can be said of most places and I've met some really friendly people in DG too.

4) Shenzhen in Guangdong province. I have never worked in Shenzhen, but I have spent a lot of time there. Personally, I don't really like Shenzhen all that much. If I lived there it would be because of work related business and a good job. There are opportunities there that are a bit harder to find further inland. Still, in my opinion Shenzhen is trying too hard to be "Little Hong Kong" and I don't enjoy H.K. all that much. It's okay to visit once in awhile, but I wouldn't live there unless it was exclusively to make money.

Honestly, in three years living here I haven't done very much traveling. I'm headed to Shantou this weekend, so that will be a new trip to a new city. If I end up working and living there next year, then I'll be sure to visit Xiamen and work my way up the coast from there, but that remains to be seen at this point.

--GA

[Mr. English]

If you like to hike and also want to live in a big city, Guangzhou is tough to beat. I live in Tianhe, the business district, and in 35 to 40 minutes from my apartment door can be in decent forest parks where I can hike for two hours and more without backtracking via six stops on one subway to one of the places (Thunder Mountain, at the north end of Baiyun Preserve, close to Yongtai metro station) and via one bus to the other (Long Dong Forest Park via a #39 bus). The air pollution is an issue. It's no Beijing, but seems almost continually stuck between about 120 and 160 (see http://www.aqicn.info/city/guangzhou/; hourly-updated air-quality information is available for many cities in eastern China and a few other cities). The wage situation I think is fairly good here; cost of living is a bit lower than some of the other large cities but wages are nearly as high. Public transportation is outstanding with excellent subway and bus systems. Drivers are jerks who have yet to figure out what they are supposed to do at red lights. Cabs are cheap I am told; almost never use them myself given the public system. Close to Hong Kong if that is of interest.

In years past I lived for a year in a small small town in far northwest Sichuan. Great place if you can hack a small small town, and there are plenty of such places in China.

[Denim-Maniac]

[lemak]

I really like my city - Wuxi in Jiangsu.

A few embarrassing environmental scandals 5 or 6 years ago caused the government to shut down many of the larger polluters, and invest pretty heavily in cleaning up the place. I guess a decade or so ago it had an awful reputation.

In the meantime it's become a modern, green and clean city. Quite spacey, wide roads. Trees literally everywhere. The locals seem well trained, and littering, spitting and depositing other bodily fluids in the street isn't all that common. I kid you not in some parts of the city - were you to have no idea where you are - you could easily mistake yourself for being in Singapore.

They're trying to turn a large portion of the downtown into a copy of Nanjing's 1912 area. Granted it's freshly done up and not that authentic, but it's looks pretty cool and makes people back home uber jealous since the pics all meet the requisite stereotypical China shots.

The lake area around my university has been restored, hence within 5 minutes I can be walking the dog through wetlands and lakeside trails. All kinds of migratory birds. Snakes also. Spotted one just before winter that was a whopping 3 meters long.

Pretty decent transport hub also. From the train station I can be in Suzhou in around 10 minutes, Shanghai in 40~45mins, Nanjing in 50, Beijing in 4 hours or so. Or fly if necessary.

The local food is pretty average compared to other regions. Too sweet, too oily, too salty. Personally I prefer the too spicy, too oily, too salty combo. Anyhow there are Indian, Thai, Korea, Japanese, Western, Russian, German, Italian restaurants in town.

As is the case for most of the eastern cities the air quality is pretty poor. Likewise a couple of "cancer villages" in the neighborhood were included in those exposes a couple of years ago which makes me wonder what kinds of horrors are lurking in the soil and water supply.

Also it's not exactly kicking for younger singles. Fine for me. I stay at home and watch TV and take naps, but I imagine others on the prowl for girls or nighttime excitement may find things a little dull and be doing a lot of weekend jaunts to Shangers.

In addition, like much of the country the weather for 8 or 9 months of the year sucks big time too. Bitterly cold cave-like ice box apartments in winter, and hellishly hot sauna-esque temperatures in summer. Spring and Fall last for about 3 days each.

Overall though it's a decent enough city. Will probably stick around for a couple more years.

[mcloo7]

Thank you all for your answers. They're very informative and interesting to read.

[SledgeCleaver]