| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
|
 Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:57 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| santi84 wrote: |
| 7969 wrote: |
| santi84 wrote: |
You have to try very hard to find any under-30 in Quebec who cannot speak functional English. My neighbour is one of them and she refuses to learn English, so we banter in French through the fences. She's the real deal!  |
Where do you live in Quebec? You'd be hard pressed to find people who couldn't speak English in Montreal, Eastern Townships, and in the Outaouais, but what about up near Rivi�re-du-Loup and Quebec City? I don't ever recall hearing much English up that way. I haven't been up there recently, so I'm curious how much English is spoken there today. |
Hi 7969, I'm in Monteregie, so more rural but within Montreal commuting distance. Functional English is certainly spoken by most youth (under 30), and the teenagers are getting quite impressive (I assume due to the Internet and their desire to communicate, along with video games). |
The P�quistes must be angry with this development.
| santi84 wrote: |
| The older generation tends to be less bilingual (bilingualism is a sign of affluence amongst the 50+ crowd). |
I don't know a lot of Quebeckers these days (my circle of acquaintances there has waned over the years I've been away) but I lived in Ottawa for nearly ten years so have worked with many Francophones and have visited Qu�bec often enough. Most of my friends from that side of the river were very close to fully bilingual, including the parents of my friends, some of whom are now in their 80s. Not all of them had their roots in Qu�bec though, some were from Sudbury or other French-speaking pockets in Ontario. French isn't likely to be on the endangered languages list anytime soon, so I think they can all rest easy over there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
riverboat
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 117
Location: Paris, France
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Interesting question. Isn't it globalisation, driven by business and economic forces, that is ultimately responsible for this phenomenen? I guess English teachers are making money off the back of it, but I don't think we're very much responsible TBH. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| riverboat wrote: |
| Interesting question. Isn't it globalisation, driven by business and economic forces, that is ultimately responsible for this phenomenen? I guess English teachers are making money off the back of it, but I don't think we're very much responsible TBH. |
AH! But what is globalaization?   
It is all a happening trend of which we are paort. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
riverboat
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 117
Location: Paris, France
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I feel more responsible for globalisation as a consumer than as an English teacher, I think. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jellyfish666
Joined: 03 Apr 2013
Posts: 15
Location: South China
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
We should educate ourselves better, then we can start thinking of educating other better...
Either way, language always evolves or devolves. It changes... We are where we are... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Language death! How much guilt do you feel? |
|
|
| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| Are we in danger of reducing large swathes of the globe to monolingual conformity? |
Quite the contrary which is why ESL has been replaced by ELT/ELL. After centuries of British rule and 64 years of English being the official language, have Indians stopped speaking their native tongues? I'll be they're more multilingual than ever. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ESL been replaced by ELT/ELL? Come again? Missed that totally.
India may not be the best example as English was only ever the language of administration and the elite. Better to look at other areas of the empire. Nearly all of North America, most of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Australia, New Zealand. Local languages wiped out or marginalised. Look also at the Netherlands, which considered making English the language of instruction for all its universities.
And language death doesn't mean that nation states change their language. More that groups that are already marginalised in their own land often emigrate to English-speaking countries - thus leading to language loss. Doubtful that this would have any impact on India... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The term ESL (English as a second language) has fallen from favour in public education at least in North America where I'm from as it assumes that English is a 2nd language when in fact it may be a 3rd or even 4th. This is particularly true in Europe, is it not?
ELL = English Language Learner
ELT = English Language Teacher/Teaching |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thanks, but I am familiar with the terms, though has always been EFL over here. Sometimes called ESOL. But how this relates to language death still eludes me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| And language death doesn't mean that nation states change their language. More that groups that are already marginalised in their own land often emigrate to English-speaking countries - thus leading to language loss. Doubtful that this would have any impact on India... |
You neglect the fact that language is so integral to culture and culture is identity---same as religion which explains why in such a secularized world, only 2 percent of Americans consider themselves atheists. The Philippines is another example--English is the language of business and instruction but how many can't speak at least their own dialect? To destroy a language, destroy the culture and the opposite is also true. Just look at how black American English evolved since slavery. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LongShiKong wrote: |
| . Just look at how black American English evolved since slavery. |
I have ordered William Labov's book. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LongShiKong wrote: |
You neglect the fact that language is so integral to culture and culture is identity |
I do not neglect this - I just have severe misgivings about the equating language with culture.
As for Black American English, I am not sure what that has to do with anything, but I would doubt that a typical bloke from Cornwall would have much in common with a black speaker of English in the States - apart from the historical fact of language loss they both share due to the intrusion of English. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| What do you want us to do about it ? Protest in Times Square ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Trafalgar Square - this Saturday! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Red Square, next Friday... and Tiananmen Square, next Saturday. 
Point is, languages don't die unless the cultures that create them do. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
