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BenE
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 321
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 Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Benefits |
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| vabeckele wrote: |
| Unfortunately, the trend seems to be going in the opposite direction, and until it changes I will not be back again - I'm outta here. |
Like anywhere in the world I've noticed you can be extremely lucky or unlucky in Vietnam with the working contracts. The nice thing is though things have slowed there's still a reasonable amount of choice compared to other places.
Bye bye choco pie but I'm sure you'll be back soon as people often leave moaning and swearing they'll never return only to be back in the same place after 6 months of the cold harsh realities of their home countries. Don't forget to get your degree/ criminal check notarized or stamped when you're back home so you'll have an easier time with the visas here when you return  |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:10 am Post subject: America |
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Only on Daves will one find such condescending, wild and arrogant claims about others - Vietnam also seems to attract many people with similar attitude problems who need to escape those cold and harsh realities of home.
Remember folks, getting your degrees and ducks in a row before coming out to Vietnam will surely act as a catalyst to the warm and fuzzy realities of work here.
Yes, I will probably pop back but I need a well deserved break. |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Benefits |
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| vabeckele wrote: |
| ".....may be solved by having contracts drawn up on probationary 3 month contracts." |
I get the impression that they are already doing that up here (and they CAN do that, as there are the beginnings of a glut of instructors), but in terms of attracting new talent straight-offa-the-boat, there is no way anybody with 1/25th of a brain would leave their home nation simply on a job offer BASED ON A THREE-MONTH "PROBATIONARY" PERIOD (IF there actually ARE people that ignorant to come over to the Land of the Scam on a three-month probationary period, well, let me know - I am the former Prince of Nigeria and I was overthrown in a bloody coup. I need somebody that I can trust to hold a large amount of money for me!! All I need is your bank account details and.......)
Just starting to see more and more and more guys (and girls) who've escaped joblessness in Eire and The U.K. over here with a dazed look on their faces: "Bloody hell! I signed a ONE-YEAR-AGREEMENT!! And NOW they're pulling some s**t about how they can't get me The Work Permit and now I have three days to either go home or, for some reason, FLY into Bangkok and back at my own expense!"
They tell 'em a one-year contract, then the actual reality is that it becomes a de facto three-month probationary period.....
.....pretty damm sick, if you ask me. |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Benefits |
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| LettersAthruZ wrote: |
| vabeckele wrote: |
| ".....may be solved by having contracts drawn up on probationary 3 month contracts." |
I get the impression that they are already doing that up here (and they CAN do that, as there are the beginnings of a glut of instructors), but in terms of attracting new talent straight-offa-the-boat, there is no way anybody with 1/25th of a brain would leave their home nation simply on a job offer BASED ON A THREE-MONTH "PROBATIONARY" PERIOD (IF there actually ARE people that ignorant to come over to the Land of the Scam on a three-month probationary period, well, let me know - I am the former Prince of Nigeria and I was overthrown in a bloody coup. I need somebody that I can trust to hold a large amount of money for me!! All I need is your bank account details and.......)
Just starting to see more and more and more guys (and girls) who've escaped joblessness in Eire and The U.K. over here with a dazed look on their faces: "Bloody hell! I signed a ONE-YEAR-AGREEMENT!! And NOW they're pulling some s**t about how they can't get me The Work Permit and now I have three days to either go home or, for some reason, FLY into Bangkok and back at my own expense!"
They tell 'em a one-year contract, then the actual reality is that it becomes a de facto three-month probationary period.....
.....pretty damm sick, if you ask me. |
Exactly! I have personally been through all of this several times and I am now bored with it all. Frameworks must be developed to actually enforce and punish these kind of behaviours. Alas, this is all but a dream. I will also say that this goes way beyond language centres; universities are all doing the same thing. I would go so far as to say it is actually worse as the monies involved are so great.
I have worked in: Hanoi Academy of Finance, Hanoi Banking Academy, Hanoi University of Economics, Hanoi University of Social Sciences, Danang Economics University, Duy Tan University and the all too infamous Raffles College. Only one of these universities has honoured its agreement with me, only one. I cannot remember how many language centres have stiffed me, all of the language centres have done something or other.
Instead of quarreling amongst ourselves about our definition of paradise we should give people the realities of living out here.
I knew it wasn't going to be a walk in a park and I enjoyed my first 18 months or so here. What was a conversation piece has now turned into frustration, so...one must move on. |
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sigmoid
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1276
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I'm sure you'll be back soon as people often leave moaning and swearing they'll never return only to be back in the same place after 6 months of the cold harsh realities of their home countries. |
Did he say he was going home? Are there only two countries in the world?
Few people will return if they find it easier to live and work elsewhere. As long as the visa situation is messed up, VN is in no way competitive in terms of attracting teachers. And this is on top of all the other problems there. |
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Tigerstyleone
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Benefits |
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Instead of quarreling amongst ourselves about our definition of paradise we should give people the realities of living out here.
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This
I would love to give people the realities of living here, but I'd probably be banned afterwards. |
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Mattingly
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 249
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: Benefits |
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| vabeckele wrote: |
| I knew it wasn't going to be a walk in a park and I enjoyed my first 18 months or so here. What was a conversation piece has now turned into frustration, so...one must move on. |
I have noticed some other instructors leaving VN in recent months.
As you and A thru Z note, this new visa and work permit situation seems like it will be an obstacle for many. I think it'll cause some/many to leave.
If these new arrivals are coming with a 1 year contract and WP offer and then its changed to 3 month probation and no WP,
then I see the quality of teachers arriving and staying here as declining. |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:33 am Post subject: Re: Benefits |
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| Tigerstyleone wrote: |
| Quote: |
Instead of quarreling amongst ourselves about our definition of paradise we should give people the realities of living out here.
. |
This
I would love to give people the realities of living here, but I'd probably be banned afterwards. |
That made me chuckle - Yeah, I am holding a lot more back too. It has been on many occasion that I have just given up trying to post here because it ends up just being too long and messy. |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:38 am Post subject: Re: Benefits |
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| Mattingly wrote: |
| vabeckele wrote: |
| I knew it wasn't going to be a walk in a park and I enjoyed my first 18 months or so here. What was a conversation piece has now turned into frustration, so...one must move on. |
I have noticed some other instructors leaving VN in recent months.
As you and A thru Z note, this new visa and work permit situation seems like it will be an obstacle for many. I think it'll cause some/many to leave.
If these new arrivals are coming with a 1 year contract and WP offer and then its changed to 3 month probation and no WP,
then I see the quality of teachers arriving and staying here as declining. |
Hi Mattingly,
I believe the visa situation to be much the same, however, I think what has compounded the problem is the fact that there just isn't that many jobs on offer, at least in Hanoi, anymore. It really has changed over the past couple of years. To add insult to injury, these language centres that are left or have enough clout to remain are now posting hourly rates of 15-20 dollars an hour. Who do they think they are kidding? My last visa run to Bangkok cost me about 400 dollars in all. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| That's right, guys. Make it sound as bad as possible. No reason to encourage the competition. |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| That's right, guys. Make it sound as bad as possible. No reason to encourage the competition. |
I myself am not trying to ENcourage OR DIScourage ANYBODY......
....jest reporting what I actually SEE and HEAR happening here on the ground in The North....
....although, to be fair, I DO see and understand Varbackle's statements on fifteen USD per classroom hour in Ha Noi, especially given Ha Noi's high cost of living (we would have seen this on offer at only thee s**ttiest of mills 18 months ago - now, it appears to be standard from what colleagues in Ha Noi tell me)......
......so, no, perhaps it would NOT be in the best interest of those already established in Viet Nam to see new instructors coming in off of the boat and undercutting the wage and salary scale.....
....and, yes, while I myself am not attempting to discourage (OR encourage) anybody from arriving here, I can certainly understand and respect the opinions of those who are. |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| What the all knowing cadres up here in the North are trying to do is move away from language centre training into state run schools at primary level. You can see these former language centres now operating as recruiters for state run schools while at the same time taking a nice hefty slice off of the teachers' salary, as much as 50 percent or more. I like the idea, but the way it is being done and the actual realities of teaching in state run schools, will see it all fail. A lot of these schools, some in Hanoi, but more so outside of the city, have no air-conditioning and programmes that are not only not implemented but are also regarded as a nuisance by many of the schools' directors; no amount of reasoning will see a rudimentary curriculum set up for the kids (no books or wrong books and no books for the kids). Yes, they all say they are provided but it is otherwise. You would also think visas, holidays, and other benefits start to be given to a programme aimed to deliver a standard education for all. Again, teachers are also expected to teach at as much as 4 or 5 different schools and then at a language centre at night, all for the princely sum of 1000 bucks a month. |
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BenE
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 321
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Seriously is $15 an hour the norm for you guys in Hanoi?? Is that before or after the place has fleeced you for taxes and other expenses?
If a school doesn't give you a work permit and is making you dance and sing in 5 different schools for $15 an hour then I think it's time to print off your CV and go round some of the language schools. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| kurtz wrote: |
| legionlabs wrote: |
In terms of work, last I saw was that a newbie with no certification can get 12-15$/hour. Work will be unreliable, so try to work for multiple places. This way if one place fails to pay you, you just leave. Build up some experience, make some friends, then transition into offering private classes.
-S |
Is it possible not to encourage these kinds of people? Please, no degree or CELTA, stay home!! You're cheating the students. Moreover, working for that kind of money is an insult and promotes the exploitation of foreigners with no options who shouldn't have made the trip over in the first place. |
Cheating the students? Hahahaha Thanks for the LAUGH!
I am sure the Vietnamese teachers who teach in Vietnamese are a MUCH better choice  |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| LettersAthruZ wrote: |
A B-3 from a travel agent for $135USD??
Damm, Legion! You must have some "good relationships" with the right people for being able to get it at THAT price now!
'course, I remember back in the (not so) good ole days when I had to deal with visa renewals and extensions and visa runs - I would ALWAYS make sure that Tan Son Nhat would be my first entry point into Viet Nam because a visa RENEWAL/EXTENSION (back before January 1st when you could legally get visas renewed and extended) would cost $45USD in District One and up to $210USD in Hoan Kiem, Ha Noi (the corruption in The North is breathtaking), so what you're saying doesn't surprise me! 
What you are saying you did would not be possible in The North for less than three hundred USD, though. I'm almost positive of it!! |
Just renewed/extended my B-3 visa yet AGAIN in HCMC for another 40 bucks, NO PROBLEM!
My American friend got a B-3 visa issued after Jan 1st 2013, and he just renewed it as well for another 3 months...
Come one, come all, if you got the Dong, Vietnam is OPEN for BUSINESS  |
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