Job Discussion Forums

[Atlas]

A story my colleague told me today:

Her (business vocational) student went for a job interview yesterday. This student was typical in her class, in that he spent most of his time not working, slacking off, disrespecting the teacher, and like so many others, just coasting through the system. Now, however, it's time for him to find a job. Nervous, he crammed certain phrases in English to introduce himself, (in that typical rote learning style shared by so many Chinese students), and was very proud that he had done so well learning them. He went to a joint venture company for an interview, and the first person who talked to him was Chinese, and didn't ask him to speak any English at all. What a relief! The interview went well, and they asked him to another office for another interview. He opened the door, and the person there was not Chinese, but Indian. The manager greeted him with a "Hello", and began to speak to the student in English. Well, as could be expected, the rote phrases went right out the window in an actual conversation. In a minute it became clear that the student didn't understand anything being said, and the manager asked him if he spoke English at all. "No," the student replied, smiling sheepishly, "Do you speak Chinese?"

"Yes, of course," said the manager. "Zaijian!"

[stavrogin2001]

I have been in China for three years and have seen three graduating classes go out into the workforce. I can agree with you almost one hundred percent. The skills that some students want to have or claim they have, are just not good enough for an international environment. Every year I help the students to write their English CVs and every year they write that their level in English is "Fluent". Meanwhile they cannot understand me if I say a sentence that has more than 5 words in it or has an idomatic phrase in it. Here is an interesting story to thicken the plot a little.

While living in Tianjin, I found a job to teach Business English to a group of managers at a company called Sunlight Everbright. It is a joint-venture Canadian insurance company. My job was to take a group of 15 managers and take them from Chinese intermediate level English level to fluency in 8 short weeks. The idea was insane and they <the managers> really thought it was possible and put the responsibility on my head.

Well the reason I am telling this story is because in these peoples daily lives they used English quite often. However they felt very reluctant to use it because they were made to speak English with people that could not speak English as well as them like Philippinos and Singaporeans <sp>

When I heard this I was a little suprised. I find that Malaysians, Singaporeans, and Philippinos tend to have some of the best English in Asia with the exception of India and Pakistan.

Although I would like reality to be a cold shower for a lot of people that are just getting by in my classes, I find that a lot of Chinese will simply pass the buck by saying the person that they are speaking with has a sub-standard accent.

Pure craziness.

[mike w]

I taught a class of 12 Chinese engineering design technicians for 5 months. They all worked for a multi-national engineering comapny, based in Sweden. At the end of the class, their manager asked to see me.

The main theme of our discussion was the fact that even though they could speak pretty good English, he couldn't understand them very well because they spoke English with a "Chinese accent". Not surprising really!

He wanted me to help them to 'lose' the Chinese accent. I tried to explain to him that really that was an impossibility. They ARE Chinese, and will always speak English with a Chinese accent. He couldn't accept my argument until I invited him to have some private tuition. Whne he asked why he needed private tuition, I told him that I found it quite difficult at times to understand him, even though his English was very good.

The reason ? He was from Marseille, and spoke English with a very strong French accent, which he would probably never lose.

Now the question posed by this story is - what is a 'sub-standard accent?'

[Roger]

I don't believe that a Frenchman cannot understand Chinese accented English.
What I do know from experience is that Chinese don't speak English at all no matter how long they have been "studying" it.
They speak Chinglish, and pronunciation and intonation are just the smallest problem in it.

And, it is true that Chinese "pass the buck" in saying "that foreigner has an unusual accent". If that foreigner is a Filippino or Singaporean, then that's good enough as an excuse not to use English at all. Sabotaging all communications attempts.

Adult CHinese students are the worst as learners. That's because they have their preconceived ideas of what would be "the best thing"
for them.
Since they hated school, they don't want to learn anything new or thoroughly enough. They simply want to "learn how to speak".
But in business, your own speaking may not be required as much as your listening and comprehension skills.
That's where Chinese fail the most.

[naturegirl321]

Speaking of pronounciation. I teach kids and there is one father who very very annoying. His daughter is four and has been studying for a year and a half. I teach at a kindergarten where we speak English 80% of the time and I'm in one class the whole time.
Everytime I see her father he asks me about ten times in one conversation, how's her pronunciation? Her prnounciation is fine! Wonderful, no Chiense accent! HOw many times tdo I have to tell him?!?!?She's little and doesn't have the horrible Chinese accented English. I swear I don't know what I'm going to do if he asks me again!

[stavrogin2001]

This question of sub-standard English accents is an interesting one. i have been living and working in China for three years and my Chinese can get me through most situations, but still my students will look at me sometimes like my Chinese is the most horrible thing that they have ever heard. At this point I remind them that they too are students of language and that they are not all speaking in what they would call a "pure" accent.

I love teaching here, but I really wish that they could hear themselves sometimes.

As to the comments about listening. I think that is a much bigger problem than others. The average student just likes to rattle off their prememorized dialogues, but cannot really have a conversation. I would say that 1/3 is actually able to have a intellegent conversation, while the others just remain floating in la la land

[kev7161]

Even when I'm not teaching I try to enunciate my spoken English as best as I can (especially here in China). I have students that not only mumble their English but also mumble their Chinese. Althought I have very poor Chinese, I can generally pick out a word here or there if it is being spoken somewhat clearly. And, with all the different dialects and all the students from different areas/cities, I REALLY have a hard time understanding anything. I try so hard to teach them proper enunciation in my classes but some actually get angry at me because I make them make the "th" sound (or whatever).