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teacher4life · Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 121

Certainly NOT in Japan, Korea, or Taiwan. Using countries where English is widely spoken such as Singapore or the Philippines is probably unfair.

Are the Saudis/Kuwaitis learning well maybe? Or the Pakistanis? Or the Cambodians?

Anyone? Anyone?

Kent F. Kruhoeffer · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 2129 Location: 中国

I'll vote for China.

There is a serious effort on the part of parents, government officials and public schools to get kids up to snuff in English, which would also explain the seemingly insatiable demand for ESL teachers in China at the moment. I'm not saying life in China is a picnic (it's not) but it's pretty cool to be able to have a fairly intelligible conversation with Chinese kids who are only 10 or 11 years old.

Speaking of the Philippines; I'm sitting in an internet cafe in Manila, where Filipino kids of the same age struggle with basic English. i.e., fluency is not static; it changes proportionately according to the amount of time, effort and financial resources put into it, and right now, China is winning the battle in Asia, strictly imho, of course.

tttompatz · Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:16 am Post subject:

In the Philippines, as in most of Asia, English ability is proportional to economic status of the family.

Poor kids (or farm kids from the province) have next to "0" English skills and see no reason to spend the time or money on improving that status. Many of their families put up a fuss when the Philippine government introduced the K-12 instead of grades 1-10 because they would have to spend an extra 2 years in school doin' book learnin' instead of making charcoal and growing rice.

Upper income bracket kids on the other hand have been pushed into it from an early age and fluency levels are usually pretty good (talk to a graduate from PNP or CIT. Chances are that their TOEIC scores will be in the 900+ range.

The same can often be said of Korea. 15 years ago you would have been hard pressed to find anyone who could even manage much more than a greeting in English. Now, most uni grads under the age of 30 can at least hold a basic conversation in English and many of them are actually pretty good in English.

Most of my Korean co-workers at the POE (under the age of 30-35) are actually pretty good using spoken English (TOEIC scores over 800). The old boys club (males over 50) are pretty useless when it comes to using English.

The case is similar in Thailand. If they come from upper crust/upper income bracket families then it is pretty well assured that they spent a large part of their formative years studying in English (as compared to just studying English). For poorer kids who went to public or temple/municipal schools then it is pretty certain that their English skills are close to "0".

Mr. English · Joined: 25 Nov 2009 Posts: 298 Location: Nakuru, Kenya

I second China. Here in Guangzhou most of the grunt work is done by immigrants from interior provinces. Whenever I get a hello from a waitress or shop worker or any sort of worker in English that has the sound of a decent accent, I always ask the person if they speak English, and talk to them a bit if they do. It is surprising how many people, especially women, in their 20s from the interior with high school educations or less speak English well enough to have conversations.

wailing_imam · Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 580 Location: Malaya

Urban Indonesia. Indonesians can actually speak English and are actually able to THINK. Mainland Chinese students are still miles behind in terms of learner autonomy. Government needs to spend a lot more money rescuing class sizes and investing in teacher training.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:41 pm Post subject:

Never really springs to mind in discussions about Asia, but Russia extends to the Pacific rim region. Serious progress has been made over the last couple of decades here with regard to English proficiency. Certainly, if IELTS results are a reliable guide, we could say that Russia is one of the top areas for successful EFL education.

JustinC · Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 1:41 pm Post subject:

Is it possible to compare countries in Asia? It must be the most diverse continent on Earth. East Asia has completely different advantages and challenges to west, south and central. A more pertinent question might be which country is more suitable for you? In the east there is overpopulation which is shrinking, in the west it's growing massively and the schooling is lagging behind but catching up, in central/south Asia .. anyone? I don't know what it's like in the 'Stans and islands but I would hazard a guess that standards are very low for anyone not born into a family with plenty of money.

I'd say most Uni grads in east Asia will be able to hold a basic/good conversation in English, the best graduates in west Asia/ME will be fluent but it's very polarized and .. in central/south Asia I have no idea.

From other threads here it seems as though most countries have seen some success of one form or another. I learnt French and Latin at school and my abilities are pretty dire, but some of my schoolmates were fluent in both (and German). The exam to enter my school, and its focus, was science which I enjoyed. I could've gone to a high school which was strong in the arts and been less enthusiastic and enjoyed it less. It's horses for courses.

godmachine12 · Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 62

chrisms86 · Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 30

The Philippines is basically California. I mean down to the accent and everything. I've traveled quite a bit there and often can shut off any notion of having to learn to local language. Gold medal.

Malaysia, I haven't traveled in as much (mostly just KL), but seems similar. Then again most of the people I've met there were foreign Muslims and not Malays.

Indonesia was pretty good, but I think that owes more to the volume of people than the quality overall. Jakarta's one of the larger cities in Asia and wherever a foreigner ends up he's probably more likely to be around people who speak English, than if he say wandered aimlessly into the slums.

Have not been to the big 3 China, Korea, Japan. But my experience in Taiwan says China has a huge language barrier and the most room for growth (that is they will benefit most from English skills).

Thailand sucks.. fluency is extremely rare only comes from those who studied overseas. Vietnam is only slightly better.

So I guess the only success story in terms of ESL is Indonesia, the other good English countries only have it for historical reasons. I remember being in Medan and never before have I been talked to as often by students wanting to practice with a tourist... there seems to be a dedication by many Indonesian students that know English will help their careers.