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deleted
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 15
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 Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:48 am Post subject: What to expect having now resigned? [update] |
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I resigned from my ESL -training center- job recently about midway into my contract. In accordance with the contract I will continue to teach here for another 2 months - at that time I will have worked 7 months.
I was formally the golden child of this operative - working six days a week and over-time from the second month I worked here - with lots of compliments and smiles, but little effort to reduce my working hours
(except promises of 'only 1 week;only 1 month' and so on). Meanwhile, other teacher's worked half my time and had 3 days off -but were passively aggresively bullied (Why they were bullied, I don't even know).
I am looking for advice on three fronts.
1. Should I now expect to be treated terribly (on top of the excess work I already do)? I believe the former enfant terrible will now be treated as a heavenly gift to make up their past treatment. In which case, what advice can you give me?
2. Am I obliged to follow the terms of the contract - stated that I will have to pay all accommodation (and other expenses so far) - when, for the majority of my time, my employer has not followed the contract - explicity stated "WILL NOT work more than X"?
3. What can I expect regarding my Z-visa. Is it safe?
I don't know what I will do next; I am considering traveling/studying at university/tutoring privately and moving in with my girlfriend who lives in another city.
[fourthly, I have personal relationships and obligations to my adult students, and other teachers from the public schools. When can I inform them that I have quit my contract without making a mess? I'm assuming NEVER.]
I am in a third tier city of Shandong.
Any advice is welcome.
Last edited by deleted on Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 3:49 am Post subject: |
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Not sure I follow: "In accordance with the contract I will continue to teach here for another 2 months...." Does the contract call for 60 days notice, or do you mean you gave 2 months' notice but will follow the contract until you leave?
1. Who knows? Don't look for trouble and don't give them any reason to treat you badly.
2. Do you mean that if "party B" resigns before the end of the contract term, party B must pay all previously provided accommodation? That's a terrible clause. Don't sign a similar one in the future. Or what exactly do you mean?
Note: it seems to me that you helped steer the boss, and the heavy workload to yourself by not joining your colleagues in refusing the extra work that you say is forbidden in the contract. Put your foot down if you don't want the overtime and the contract says you don't have to do it.
3. Your z-visa has safely been cancelled, assuming you by now have secured a Residence Permit. Do you have a Residence Permit in your passport? If not, you may be in trouble with the PSB. Like the stapled little note on the z-visa says, it will expire in/after 30 days. If you have a valid Residence Permit in your passport, it is unlikely to be cancelled before it expires. Don't give your employer the chance by giving them your passport.
4. I wouldn't get into it with your students until you are on your way out. Otherwise it may be perceived as bad-mouthing your boss, thus bringing more trouble. |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| deleted wrote: |
I resigned from my ESL -training center- job recently about midway into my contract. In accordance with the contract I will continue to teach here for another 2 months - at that time I will have worked 7 months.
I was formally the golden child of this operative - working six days a week and over-time from the second month I worked here - with lots of compliments and smiles, but little effort to reduce my working hours
(except promises of 'only 1 week;only 1 month' and so on). Meanwhile, other teacher's worked half my time and had 3 days off -but were passively aggresively bullied (Why they were bullied, I don't even know). |
It looks more like they saw you as the golden sucker. Overworked you and made promises they had no plan on keeping.
| deleted wrote: |
| 1. Should I now expect to be treated terribly (on top of the excess work I already do)? I believe the former enfant terrible will now be treated as a heavenly gift to make up their past treatment. In which case, what advice can you give me? |
The sky's the limit really, they'll treat you as badly as you allow them to.
| deleted wrote: |
| 2. Am I obliged to follow the terms of the contract - stated that I will have to pay all accommodation (and other expenses so far) - when, for the majority of my time, my employer has not followed the contract - explicity stated "WILL NOT work more than X"? |
Does your contract say you're responsible for all expenses if you quit early? Does your contract limit the number of hours you have to work? Is overtime optional, or at your employer's discretion? You may have signed a really bad contract and only now realizing it. Correct me if I'm mistaken though. But if you've got the standard contract and they haven't been abiding by it then why should you? This one is a no-brainer.
| deleted wrote: |
3. What can I expect regarding my Z-visa. Is it safe?
I don't know what I will do next; I am considering traveling/studying at university/tutoring privately and moving in with my girlfriend who lives in another city. |
You sure you came here with a Z visa? If you did then you have a residence permit in your passport valid for another five months or so. I'm only asking because your situation is very similar to what goes on when people arrive on a tourist or business visa. Your residence permit is tied to your employer and since you don't plan on working at another school you'll have to leave China soon and come back with a different visa.
| deleted wrote: |
| [fourthly, I have personal relationships and obligations to my adult students, and other teachers from the public schools. When can I inform them that I have quit my contract without making a mess? I'm assuming NEVER.] |
It's not your job to tell students and other teachers you're leaving. That's between you and your employer. If your employer treats you badly then tell them as much. If things don't change but you keep on working for them, then really it's your fault for accepting that kind of treatment. |
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deleted
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| roadwalker wrote: |
Not sure I follow: "In accordance with the contract I will continue to teach here for another 2 months...." Does the contract call for 60 days notice, or do you mean you gave 2 months' notice but will follow the contract until you leave?
Yes, the contract asks for 2 months notice.
2. Do you mean that if "party B" resigns before the end of the contract term, party B must pay all previously provided accommodation? That's a terrible clause. Don't sign a similar one in the future. Or what exactly do you mean?
Yes, the contract stated that - all incurred costs including accomodation.
Note: it seems to me that you helped steer the boss, and the heavy workload to yourself by not joining your colleagues in refusing the extra work that you say is forbidden in the contract. Put your foot down if you don't want the overtime and the contract says you don't have to do it.
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At the time, my employer was considering firing the other employee, so would not give them any new classes |
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deleted
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
Does your contract say you're responsible for all expenses if you quit early? Does your contract limit the number of hours you have to work? Is overtime optional, or at your employer's discretion? You may have signed a really bad contract and only now realizing it. Correct me if I'm mistaken though. But if you've got the standard contract and they haven't been abiding by it then why should you? This one is a no-brainer.
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Yes, working hours explicitly are limited. As for over time, it is not stated (I do get paid for it). I could perhaps have put my foot down and refused, but instead I expressed my disastisfaction and recieved from them the promise of change. For the 3rd time they haven't come good on that promise within the stated time-frame so I am quitting (have quit). The thing is they have half a month salary and my housing deposit.
| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
| You sure you came here with a Z visa? |
Yes, I have a residence permit in fact, not Z-visa. Okay, safe.
| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
| It's not your job to tell students and other teachers you're leaving. |
I feel I have obligations to some of my students and the other teachers who have made an investment in me and who I am friends with. In not informing them earlier I feel I am protecting my employer who was a jerk and forsaking my friends. But yes, likely to cause problems.
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Sarcastro
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 89
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| You dont have to quit, just dont do it. If they cry about it point to the contract. That's what it's there for. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:47 am Post subject: |
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I guess if it were me I would've sucked it up and worked the last two months, but maybe not work any more overtime. If they asked me to work more OT, I would have responded with a (polite) no thank you or maybe limit yourself to OT hours that would have been more agreeable to you.
Two months is not that much time to endure and then (hopefully) you wouldn't have to worry about regular pay, deposits and what-not that would be owed to you. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| deleted wrote: |
| Yes, working hours explicitly are limited. As for over time, it is not stated (I do get paid for it). I could perhaps have put my foot down and refused, but instead I expressed my disastisfaction and recieved from them the promise of change. For the 3rd time they haven't come good on that promise within the stated time-frame so I am quitting (have quit). The thing is they have half a month salary and my housing deposit. |
1. working hours are limited. why work more? just say no.
2. overtime not stated? are you sure? it's in the standard contract.
3. "expressing dissatisfaction" does not equal "no." it's a wish.
4. did they say they would reduce your hours? if so, when? or did they
say they would "try to?"
5. why quit? is too many (paid) hours the only problem? just. say. no. |
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deleted
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| " why quit? is too many (paid) hours the only problem? just. say. no." |
Because, amongst many other discretions and moral failings, I don't want to work for an employer who makes promises they don't plan to keep.
Overtime is stated in a minimalistic sense.
| Quote: |
"4. did they say they would reduce your hours? if so, when? or did they
say they would "try to?" |
[quote]Initially I accepted extra working with the proviso that it would only be for one week - at that time my manager was overseas. When they returned I complained about the working hours, which by the way, I believe, aren't fairly accounted for - I lose a whole day, I get paid for 3 hours. I said "I don't want extra money. I want a day off". At that time they said, sneakily, we will try to give you a day off in May. About a month ago, judging our relationship was souring they told me they "promised" to give me a day off. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| deleted wrote: |
Overtime is stated in a minimalistic sense.
Initially I accepted extra working with the proviso that it would only be for one week - at that time my manager was overseas. |
1. minimalistic? that's the contract wording? sounds strange to me.
2. you accepted. someone promised. who promised? not your manager.
a secretary? who? anyone in authority? |
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deleted
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
| deleted wrote: |
Overtime is stated in a minimalistic sense.
Initially I accepted extra working with the proviso that it would only be for one week - at that time my manager was overseas. |
1. minimalistic? that's the contract wording? sounds strange to me.
2. you accepted. someone promised. who promised? not your manager.
a secretary? who? anyone in authority? |
The contract states that overtime is "determined by the manager", and paid at X per hour. But it also states that "weekly hours will not exceed Y"
What makes you think it was not my manager who promised? It was.
I guess they promised me this because they knew I was deeply disatisfied and May was looming with no day off in sight. i.e. promised me to keep me hanging on for the oasis ever in the distance.
Remember, I'm looking for advice on the future. I have quit. |
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zactherat
Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 295
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| deleted wrote: |
| The thing is they have half a month salary and my housing deposit. |
I wouldn't count on getting either of those back. Expect to see huge unpaid bills at your apartment, which swallow up any money owed to you.
| Quote: |
| I'm looking for advice on the future. |
Next time, rent an apartment independently. That way you won't be trapped by your deposit (although you might run into similar problems with a landlord!)
Also, remember that no Chinese boss will ever think highly of you putting in extra work for minimalistic compensation. If you prove yourself to be susceptible to exploitation, you'll just get trodden all over again and again.
Also, be very careful of your residence permit - they'll probably cancel it as soon as your back is turned. Don't get caught at the border 6 months from now having to backpay the (daily) overstay fee.
Also, get a release letter. Without one these days, you will find it incredibly hard to get a new job. The last guy that (unamicably) quit my current school has been flaming us on the internet since he can't get a job anywhere in China now without it. Incidentally he's in deep - he has a couple of kids and a wife in tow.. total trainwreck |
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deleted
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| zactherat wrote: |
I wouldn't count on getting either of those back. Expect to see huge unpaid bills at your apartment, which swallow up any money owed to you. |
I wondered whether I had recourse to the legal system, because they hadn't followed their contract in over working me.
| Quote: |
| Also, remember that no Chinese boss will ever think highly of you putting in extra work for minimalistic compensation. If you prove yourself to be susceptible to exploitation, you'll just get trodden all over again and again. |
I don't mind working extra during extenuating circumstances, though I am aware that this means I am easily exploited. Next time I'll know to make it clear from the outset that I will only work over time under certain conditions.
| Quote: |
| Also, be very careful of your residence permit - they'll probably cancel it as soon as your back is turned. Don't get caught at the border 6 months from now having to backpay the (daily) overstay fee. |
I thought it was very difficult to cancel the permit, and usually not to be worried about. I've busted my ass off for these people, aslong as I leave amicably why should I fear?
| Quote: |
| Also, get a release letter. Without one these days, you will find it incredibly hard to get a new job. The last guy that (unamicably) quit my current school has been flaming us on the internet since he can't get a job anywhere in China now without it. Incidentally he's in deep - he has a couple of kids and a wife in tow.. total trainwreck |
release letters are given from employer to employer, not from employer to employee, though? Aren't they?
Thanks for your advice. |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| deleted wrote: |
| zactherat wrote: |
| Also, be very careful of your residence permit - they'll probably cancel it as soon as your back is turned. Don't get caught at the border 6 months from now having to backpay the (daily) overstay fee. |
I thought it was very difficult to cancel the permit, and usually not to be worried about. I've busted my ass off for these people, aslong as I leave amicably why should I fear? |
You haven't noticed yet? From what you've written this is not a boss that really cares about you. You seem worried about doing right by these people yet it doesn't look like they deserve that consideration. Once you're done working at this place it might be a good idea to leave China, get a new visa then re-enter on your own terms. |
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deleted
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
| deleted wrote: |
| zactherat wrote: |
| Also, be very careful of your residence permit - they'll probably cancel it as soon as your back is turned. Don't get caught at the border 6 months from now having to backpay the (daily) overstay fee. |
I thought it was very difficult to cancel the permit, and usually not to be worried about. I've busted my ass off for these people, aslong as I leave amicably why should I fear? |
You haven't noticed yet? From what you've written this is not a boss that really cares about you. You seem worried about doing right by these people yet it doesn't look like they deserve that consideration. Once you're done working at this place it might be a good idea to leave China, get a new visa then re-enter on your own terms. |
I think my boss lacks empathy and is dumb in the sense of inexperience. It wasn't in their book of rules that I might simply pull the pin. I want to do the right thing by them primarily so I get the best deal out of my leaving (they don't turn vindictive).
I don't particularly care about them but I care about my students, and the public school. |
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