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zenmeban
Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 12
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 Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:23 am Post subject: A few easy noob questions... 请帮 |
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About me: I'm coming to China this July on a tourist visa, gonna teach under the table until I get a Z-visa. Caucasian, quite skilled in Mandarin, but slightly rusty in speaking. I've got a few questions...
1) What are some other job boards for ESL in China?
2) Where can I get an idea of the terms/benefits in an "average" ESL contract in Shanghai? The sticky is 8 years old.�
3) Where can I find a reputable school to work at, or a list of them? (PM me if you're at one!)
4) I have 14 months' experience at a top-notch, reputable hagwon chain in a top-tier Korean city. Will this help me get a better salary or more and better job opportunities? I have very good reqs from the school.�
Thanks! |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:43 am Post subject: Re: A few easy noob questions... 请帮&am |
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| zenmeban wrote: |
| About me: I'm coming to China this July on a tourist visa... |
Why are you coming on a tourist visa?
I mean, if you speak Mandarin then a quick Baidu search would turn up a list of language centers in the greater Shanghai area and you don't even need to be able to pseak Chinese to get in touch with the universities. |
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zenmeban
Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Finding language centers is easy, but how do I know they won't breach contract, work me like a slave, or have a terrible work environment? I know it's tough to find a good school, but I ought to do my homework first.
Will universities be willing to hire someone like me? I don't have any certifications.
I'm coming on a tourist visa to visit a friend in the city. They'll put me up while I look for a job. I've saved a bucket of money for this and hope to eventually transition out of ESL into something using my Chinese. |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| zenmeban wrote: |
Finding language centers is easy, but how do I know they won't breach contract, work me like a slave, or have a terrible work environment? I know it's tough to find a good school, but I ought to do my homework first.
Will universities be willing to hire someone like me? I don't have any certifications.
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So instead you want to find one willing to break the law by hiring you on a tourist visa? Or one which is perhaps less than properly organized and will take you on after a visa run? These don't sound like good options.
Do you have a degree? |
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zenmeban
Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| GuestBob wrote: |
| zenmeban wrote: |
Finding language centers is easy, but how do I know they won't breach contract, work me like a slave, or have a terrible work environment? I know it's tough to find a good school, but I ought to do my homework first.
Will universities be willing to hire someone like me? I don't have any certifications.
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So instead you want to find one willing to break the law by hiring you on a tourist visa? Or one which is perhaps less than properly organized and will take you on after a visa run? These don't sound like good options.
Do you have a degree? |
I plan on going to Japan after two months anyway. I figure a visa run would be easy during that time. Not sure why a visa run is a bad thing, not illegal AFAIK. I refuse to work for an organization while on a tourist visa. And unless I'm really unlucky, I doubt teaching a few of my friend's acquaintances will land me in prison/get me deported.
I have a BA in Chinese and a BA in Int'l Relations.
Thanks for the response. Any help on the other questions? |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| zenmeban wrote: |
I have a BA in Chinese and a BA in Int'l Relations.
Thanks for the response. Any help on the other questions? |
BA and experience means that you are a likely candidate for a university position - a TEFL certificate would be a plus but isn't essential if you have legit teaching hours under your belt.
Seriously, get on Baidu and give a few universities a phone. You should be able to find their "Foreign Affairs Office" on their website if you have a BA in Oriental Runes and they'll do the biggest double take when they realise you can speak Chinese (oh yeah, negotiate on that front as well).
Some might be full up already, but I bet you could still find one or two who will have a September spot for you - maybe you could get everything squared away and then come to China for an in person interview to scope it out properly (they'd want you to sign the contract now though, for their security).
The visa run is not illegal - all I was saying is that you might want to be careful about the places who are in need of teachers outside the normal recruitment cycle. This is a big *maybe* though, because recruiting FTs is a kind of witchcraft and not a science. However, just keep your ears open and find out if they need a new whiteface because their last one ran away due to their being a terrible employer.
You would have a wider choice if you started with the job applications now (like, asap now). |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Can't believe this  |
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litterascriptor
Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| zenmeban wrote: |
Finding language centers is easy, but how do I know they won't breach contract, work me like a slave, or have a terrible work environment? I know it's tough to find a good school, but I ought to do my homework first.
Will universities be willing to hire someone like me? I don't have any certifications.
I'm coming on a tourist visa to visit a friend in the city. They'll put me up while I look for a job. I've saved a bucket of money for this and hope to eventually transition out of ESL into something using my Chinese. |
Wrong question...
Should be when will they breach their contract. You working illegally are ripe for exploitation and more than likely you will be exploited.
Seriously, there should be a sticky with the top 20 exploited laowai teacher stories to serve as a cautionary tale of sorts. |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Not being nasty, but read what the OP actually wrote. Although we're not technically supposed to look for a job while on a tourist visa, it's highly unlikely to cause the OP any problems.
Your problem may be the certification. Although places off the beaten track are often able to recruit teachers without a proper TEFL cert, Shanghai is the actual beaten track.
If you man that you don't have a degree, then you stand almost no chance from now on anywhere in China. (Almost no chance, not absolutely none).
Also most Unis will have stopped recruiting now, because term is nearly over, and they'll go on hols.
To figure out whether schools will cheat you, talk to the other teachers. Being able to talk to schools in person will help you make that judgement.
The best place to find jobs and adverts in shanghai will be local forums for expats. Start here http://www.echinacities.com/Shanghai
I think that you're going to find it very tough to find a job in Shanghai, because it's so competitive. However, there are people who could get a job selling ice skates in the desert, and maybe you're one of those people. |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
I think that you're going to find it very tough to find a job in Shanghai, because it's so competitive. |
A graduate with teaching experience who also speaks Chinese? Yeah, I am pretty sure that there aren't too many of those working the circuit, even in Shanghai. Dude's competitive. |
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5h09un
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| zenmeban wrote: |
| I have a BA in Chinese and a BA in Int'l Relations. |
which will certainly be useful if you get popped for working illegally.
you can't flip tourist visas on the mainland. or in HK. or in a third country. those days are over. if anybody told you otherwise, they lied.
you have to get your Z visa at home now. don't work here illegally. it's too risky. |
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5h09un
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
| Although we're not technically supposed to look for a job while on a tourist visa, it's highly unlikely to cause the OP any problems. |
could you please tell me in all your infinite wisdom what the point of flying all the way here to look for a TEFL job is if you're just going to have to fly back and wait weeks to process all of the necessary documents? |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
| Not being nasty, but read what the OP actually wrote. Although we're not technically supposed to look for a job while on a tourist visa . |
No, I think we are not legally allowed to work. Looking for a job isn't working, thus not illegal.
So coming on a tourist visa and checking out China, hangin with a friend, or the job market THEN going on a visa run if a suitable job is found?
What's wrong with that? He never mentions working on a tourist visa ( and we aren't disusing privates). |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| kungfuman wrote: |
| vikeologist wrote: |
| Not being nasty, but read what the OP actually wrote. Although we're not technically supposed to look for a job while on a tourist visa . |
No, I think we are not legally allowed to work. Looking for a job isn't working, thus not illegal.
So coming on a tourist visa and checking out China, hangin with a friend, or the job market THEN going on a visa run if a suitable job is found?
What's wrong with that? He never mentions working on a tourist visa ( and we aren't disusing privates). |
Well he did say "I'm coming to China this July on a tourist visa, gonna teach under the table until I get a Z-visa." That sounds like working illegally till something legal comes along. As long as people are willing to do this then there are always going to be recruiters and schools willing to enable it. There's nothing wrong with coming to China on a tourist visa and looking for work, finding it, and then doing a visa run. Lots of people do that.
| 5h09un wrote: |
| you have to get your Z visa at home now. |
Depends where you get a job. If you're already in China only one or two provinces supposedly have this requirement, for most others a short trip to Hong Kong will do. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
| .....Although places off the beaten track are often able to recruit teachers without a proper TEFL cert, Shanghai is the actual beaten track..... |
very very very, and i do mean very, few places in china require any sort
of tefl certification. some private schools, the 'real' international schools,
and your odd prestidigitios university will. your average ordinary everyday
university or mill won't require it. sometimes the ads will state "tefl
cert. desired," but if you meet all the other requirements, they'll drop it. |
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