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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Ha!
You must have been measuring another part of my anatomy. Mr. Green
Now tell me, how did we get from lightening up on grammar ... to this?
Ah yes, I remember. It was spiral78's fault for the beanbag / guitar remarks |
mea culpa!  This is more fun than imagining giving up on student grammar skills, anyway. |
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jonniboy
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Panama City, Panama
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| Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| The problem is the education system in the u.k. is letting a lot of kids down. If a school doesnt pay attention to it's students then they shouldn't be surprised if there results where bad. I always thought my teacher should of explained the grammar rules a bit more clearer. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| Bravo! Loved that post, Jonniboy. Artfully done! |
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teacheratlarge
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 192
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Lighten up on the grammar |
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| the_thinker wrote: |
| teacheratlarge wrote: |
There are cases though, where grammar is important:
"Let's eat, grandpa!" and "Let's eat grandpa!" may result in different storylines (and different meals  ). |
That's punctuation, not grammar. And I really doubt there would ever be a situation where a misunderstanding of this nature could actually happen. |
I think you're half right. It is a punctuation/pronunciation error, but no, sometimes things like that lead to misunderstandings. |
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teacheratlarge
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 192
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear Sasha,
You do realize, I hope, that the stuff about "changing" was a quote from the OP.
Having reached the age of 70 and having gone through many physical changes, especially in the last five years or so, I am, believe me, quite well aware that not all change is for the better.
As my dear sister (who is seven years older than I) was kind enough to inform me on my sixty-fifth birthday, "Happy Birthday - now, you start falling apart." 
Regards,
Old John |
John,
You either need to take better care of yourself or get a new sister. 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331210/Yuichiro-Miura-Oldest-person-scale-Mount-Everest-says-climb-despite-rival-81-bidding-break-record.html
http://japandailypress.com/at-106-japanese-man-recognized-as-oldest-to-travel-around-world-179507 |
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teacheratlarge
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 192
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:29 am Post subject: |
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We're seeing changes in grammar in Indian English, Singlish, and Konglish. Whether those forms of English will ever be very mainstream is difficult to say. It might depend on population growth and movements where speakers bring their forms of English to new shores.
If you think grammar hasn't changed, take a look at any Shakespeare play. The English they use is not exactly the same as what we speak now, grammatically or vocabulary-wise. |
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Ignatius Reilly
Joined: 30 Jun 2011
Posts: 29
Location: East of Suez
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jonniboy wrote: |
| The problem is the education system in the u.k. is letting a lot of kids down. If a school doesnt pay attention to it's students then they shouldn't be surprised if there results where bad. I always thought my teacher should of explained the grammar rules a bit more clearer. |
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Ignatius Reilly
Joined: 30 Jun 2011
Posts: 29
Location: East of Suez
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Made a mess of that previous one. Anyway, my old nuns would have beaten my knuckles at the misuse of 'it's' in that post! As for the missing apostrophe...? Oh tempora, oh mores. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Are those the only 'errors' that you read in Jonniboy's superb post? I am sure the nuns would have something to say about that... |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Dear teacheratlarge,
Well, so far, I'd say my sister was indulging in a little wishful schadenfreude, an anticipatory "misery loves company."
Oh there have been changes - two cancer operations in the last three years - but last semester I was teaching 20 classroom hours a week (not to mention tutoring 3 students a week on Skype) and I'm still pretty spry.
I work out at the gym 3 times a week, do my daily sit-ups and push-ups, and, now that summer's here, run about 10 miles a week.
Still 5' 9" and 140 pounds and ready to take on Everest
Regards,
John |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| teacheratlarge wrote: |
We're seeing changes in grammar in Indian English, Singlish, and Konglish. Whether those forms of English will ever be very mainstream is difficult to say. It might depend on population growth and movements where speakers bring their forms of English to new shores.
If you think grammar hasn't changed, take a look at any Shakespeare play. The English they use is not exactly the same as what we speak now, grammatically or vocabulary-wise. |
There is a fundamental difference, however. Singlish English is a creole, and is heavily influenced by other languages, as is Indian English so influenced, or even Hiberno-English. While these may have an influence long-term on Standard English, this is in no way the same thing as ignorant monoglot Englishman or Americans not bothering to learn their standard English properly.
Shakspeare is regularly trotted out to defend sometimes both sides of an argument - hence the joke 'when in doubt, trot a little Shakespeare out'. However, again there is a basic difference between the natural language change that has occurred since 'thee' and 'thou' were spoken by the majority, and being ignorant of grammar nowadays. Namely, there is now a standard form of English that all can refer to, plenty of dictionaries to support it etc., which simply did not exist when 'I am a weakish speller' was penning his works.
Ignorance of a language is a poor defence for its debasement. |
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Professional TEFLer
Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Lighten up on the grammar |
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| teacheratlarge wrote: |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay-festival/10086135/Hay-Festival-2013-Oxford-professor-asks-for-grammar-pedants-to-relax.html
So how relaxed are you with your grammar?
Not sure I am in favor of they're/their/there being unified, but I certainly see his point, that language is continually changing.
There are cases though, where grammar is important:
"Let's eat, grandpa!" and "Let's eat grandpa!" may result in different storylines (and different meals ). |
Very relaxed. Could be because I am used to teaching people how to effectively communicate in English and not memorize a lot of RULES.
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Professional TEFLer,
Do you teach much academic writing?
Regards,
John |
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Professional TEFLer
Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear Professional TEFLer,
Do you teach much academic writing?
Regards,
John |
Never amigo. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Do your learners then already know the RULES, or do they somehow communicate effectively without knowing them? Using pantomime, pictures or gesture perhaps? |
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