Job Discussion Forums

[Erich]

If I were teaching young children, to get their attention, I would get a plant stalk and another piece of wood, twirl it inbetween my palms and make a fire. they are always fascinated and want to learn from you. (I was a wilderness survival instructor) I realize that teaching young children how to make fire just might not be the best idea, but this is just an example. so find somthing that will fascinate them, and balance teaching that with their other studies

[Taiping04]

[traveller]

Hi Naturegirl, and the crew...

* I just got the water pistol yesterday. I'l let the kids use to on me for a reward, AND use it to squirt a few kids in a Very Special Primary Class.

* I mentioned it in a job interview for a position in Shanghai, and the director laughed. This discipline method won't fly in his schools: the parents won't stand for it. And you wonder why rich kids are always spoiled?

[garbotara]

I was a bit tied off yesterday. I do enjoy most of my students. I just want to get my grades in and go. I will take two days off.

[naturegirl321]

Yeah, the problem is the parents. They put sooo much pressure on the kids.
An example, one girl will only eat cheese, KFC, McDonald's or Pizza Hut, won't eat at school. WE tell her parents, guess what they say? They want to bring this food to the kindergarten so she can eat it. Ok, what about the other kids? I think that there should be a test that you have to pass in order to become a parent.

As for the games that Susie suggersted, I think that they sound great, however, can do them except during playtime, because of the curriculum.

Roger, in the west kindergartens are fun, but not here, When I was young and I colored a person's face, in apicture orange, I was praised for using my imagination, here they are yelled at.

Nolefan, yeah the kids were horrible in theri class. Now they are worse, because they rile all the other kids up. I think I'm going to try a combination of squirting them and ignoring them.

It's because they get what they want, Like the girl who will only eat fast food. Hello, a parent should know tht it's not good for them, what are they trying to do, give the kid a hard attack before they are 10?!?

Also, if I didn't like food when I was young, my mom said, fine. And I got it the next day for breakfast, still didn't eat it, got it for lunch, then dinner. Parents need to realize that they are in control not their spolied rotten childern

[kev7161]

Maybe teaching a very young child one-on-one could be okay, but a whole gaggle of them? No thank you. I was working a part time job last fall and one of my classes was 6 young children from the age of 4 to about 7 I think. The oldest boy was just fine (usually), but the 4 & 5 year olds? They were off the wall, easily distracted, squirmy, couldn't sit still for two minutes. And, yes, I tried a HOST of different tactics . . . usually to no avail.

Obviously, there are some teachers out there who can handle these tykes and perhaps do quite well . . . .and for that I give you a big ol' "attaboy" or "attagirl". But I think I'll stay with my Senior high kids, thanks all the same (and, of course, that's a WHOLE 'nother set of problems - - puberty anyone?).

[ebritton]

I really believe Roger's right, and focusing on the fundamental issue. Kindergarden has to be playschool - play is learning for very young children.

Parents do need to be educated about turning on a child's brain - that's the first job of education. If you turn their brains off (i.e. traditional methods regardless of where you are in the world) it really doesn't matter what you do after that - it's not going to work.

This is especially true of little boys. I hear repeatedly that the girls are better behaved than the boys. That's because little boys are all born to be mammoth hunters. This is true. What self respecting mammoth hunter is going to sit in a chair and be quiet? Or sing songs for candy?

Try getting a big jar, punching holes in the top, and putting a pet spider into it (nonpoisonous, of course). The mammoth hunters get to feed it flies. Mammoth hunters love this. You'll get their attention for hours. They'll name their spiders (Spiderman!) They'll count the flies. They'll describe the attack. They'll draw pictures.

Non-mammoth hunters think this approach is gross and cruel. They hate spiders. Do not try this technique with non-mammoth hunters.

[Roger]

There is this other forum for Elementary School Education questions, where kindergarten questions can be raised. I personally enjoy this level much better than older children. You need to adapt to the children's level, and begin at zero, but this way, your progress is considerably more measurable.
Kids this age need a lot of physical action. That's why the Total Physical Response method is a success. I didn't know of its existence, but I found out exactly the same with my class.
In a society that fworships the community and disapproves of the individual, there is little understanding of competition and ambition. These are virtues with which we grow up; you can instill them in your preschoolers, though.
When they become aware that to be the No. 1 in racing is an honour then they learn to cooperate, obey rules and listen to your instructions.

But understanding the minds of these little ones is a conditio sine qua non; unfortunately, the CHinese don't understand them!
You should prevail upon them and insist on dishing out manageable quantities of English phrases within useful contexts rather than those silly teacher-spoonfeeds-her-little Chinese English learners lessons.

[naturegirl321]

The problem is that my kids understand the commands, just don't listen.
I tried the squirt gun thing. He's what happnes, it gets their attention, but then lots of them act bad because they want to get squirted, we're on the fifth floor, no air, no fans, it's hot.
I tried this as well. Drew a circle about the size of my fist on a paper. Put the paper on the floor in the middle of the circle where we sit for class. If they were bad the second time, they have to put their nose on the circle and be in the duck and cover postion for five minutes.
Third time they are bad have to hold their hands out to the side for five minutes.
The class is better, however three of the bad kids were sick today, again.

[traveller]

I tried the squirt too. It kept things down, but only a bit. I sensed that I shouldn't overuse it too much... (I think that it's effectiveness depends on the teacher - if he does the squirt with a serious attitude, the kids get the message. If he's too fun-loving, it just isn't as effective.)

More effective was my assistant teacher and her idea of scoring teams. Our class is set in rows, and they are made up to teams. She gave them marks for proper behaviour, more marks for good answers, and took off marks for bad behaviour. She gave a short talk (in Chinese) before she began.

Really, discipline is based on how much the kids fear & respect you. Get some way to get that respect - without paddling their behinds - and you have what you need. Using tools, awards and such like is only of limited effect: it's what you do with it that counts.

(I suspect - can't prove it, just suspect it - that Chinese-speaking women are comfortable with using verbal knives: but I wouldn't use that even if I could speak Chinese. I want to shape them to be better kids, not crush their spirit. And conformity to the masses is not what I'm about...)

One thing I haven't tried is maintaining a book on good and bad habits for the kids, having them fill it out, and reminding them that their Mom will see it! I don't need it for my Undisciplined class - they are noisy, but not malicious.

It's just that boys will be boys. They're good people - they just need a bit more training and less boredom. I work to keep them moving and talking and interested - they learn to speak well, even if their is a pernament 'low-level background roar.' in the class

The girls are really intimidated by the squirt gun - but they don't cause discipline problems, really.

[naturegirl321]

The book thing might work, though after a while, most parents uit reading it. I find that the boys cause the most trouble as well.

[smalls]

Definitely one of the most challenging levels - you are not just a teacher. A child must learn to share, to learn respect (saying thank you, please, answering 'Hello' and 'Good bye', etc), how to play with others, hand-eye (motor) coordination, and I could go on and on. And, as many of you said, these kids are not getting this at home, and it is a pretty big task at their regular schools where they are overwhelmed by sheer number. When I first started teaching these little guys here, I want to teach them how to write the alphabet. The parents were up in arms, telling me that this was not possible and I should listen to their ideas (never did have or give any). None of them had taught before or spoke English (and was feeling quite tempted to head to their offices and critique their work.) I pushed on, and after two weeks, the parents were silenced and my kids were able to even write their names shortly thereafter.
And I have heard before, don't punish the child, you will make them lose face. I reply 'What about the teacher?' If they do not respect the teacher and do not believe there are consequences, then the teacher has 'no face' because there is lack of respect. I have had kids (usually the extremely spoiled, who are the worst to control) mop the floor (if they spit) as tears pour from their eyes.
Assistants can help out so much, if they back you up that is. They can speak with the children, help keep them in line (I understand that they are only 4-6) and the hardest thing for me is to get them to stop comforting a child who is being punished. Confuses the kid.
Once, after losing my patience, I said to a group of 8-10 year olds, that the future of China will be lead by female doctors, lawyers, astronauts, and chairman, with the boys behind them cleaning up the trash and polishing their shoes (the difference in attitude, skill, and everything in general in the classroom is amazing between the two sexes), and the girls cheered, while the boys lowered their heads in shame. I doubt there is must truth to this, just was trying to make a point, which more than likely went no where.

[naturegirl321]

We had a meeting today and now the principals want NO punishments, not even scolding the kids. That's great, now they will never respect the teachers.

[Sekhmet]

Ok, so I'm not teaching in China, but this whole discussion has a lot of relevence for me... I'm a newbie teacher, I got thrown in at the deep end with a summer school here in Egypt, and I'm teaching 2 classes, on of kindergarten students and one of Junior 1+2 (about 7/8 years).

The Junior group is fun,and for the most part the kids seem to really enjoy the class. But the kindergarten group is a nightmare!!! Even when I do really fun activities, they pay no attention, run round the classroom screaming, and generally cause mayhem.

So I'm struggling with them. I totally see the point that kindergarten teachers have to do more than just teach, but even with an Egyptian assistant, its virtually impossible to get any control!!

Just thought I'd share my experience (and I've only been doing this for 2 weeks??!!)