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Professional TEFLer
Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 77
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 Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| zactherat wrote: |
| You are not applying directly to a school, you are applying through a recruiter. Personally I would never use a recruiter, but each to their own. |
Then how is one supposed to get a position in China? If the newbie doesn't know the language, is he/she supposed to just fly over and hope to find a job that will help them get the work visa? Just curious. |
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Ariadne
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 960
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:54 am Post subject: |
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1. Decide where you want to live in China... which general area or city.
2. Research/find schools in the area you've chosen.
3. Go to the school's webpage and follow the job application process.
4. Repeat often.
5. Once hired the school will send you the docs to get your Z.
6. You don't need recruiters.
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| Ariadne wrote: |
1. Decide where you want to live in China... which general area or city.
2. Research/find schools in the area you've chosen.
3. Go to the school's webpage and follow the job application process.
4. Repeat often.
5. Once hired the school will send you the docs to get your Z.
6. You don't need recruiters.
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This post sums up myriad other contributions.
Can I suggest Rule 7.
'When you've made untold applications and are sure that should be enough, refer Rule 4.' |
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Toast
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 428
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Be aware too many universities don't update the English side of their websites that often it seems. My school for example still lists the contact person and email address for recruitment as an FAO that hasn't worked at the school since 2006.
If it's one particular school you're interested in don't just send off one email to the given address and forget about it. Look around for others, even on the Chinese side of the site and send to a few. Guaranteed at least one of them will find their way to the desk or email inbox of the current FAO. |
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nomad-ish
Joined: 21 Oct 2010
Posts: 153
Location: Moving up the food chain!
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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sounds a bit dodgy, i've used 3 different recruiters for jobs in Korea and China, and each time, the contract I sign is with the school/school board they represent, not their recruiting company.
the only thing i can think of this that they're planning on moving you around from this school to that school to make up your hours. that means a hell of a lot of time spent figuring out where you're going and commuting to locations. they could technically even have you do half a day at this school and half a day somewhere else (using your lunch hour to commute... heard of this happening before) |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| Toast wrote: |
| Guaranteed at least one of them will find their way to the desk or email inbox of the current FAO. |
I have done this in the past. Any university, or other employer, who is too disorganized or lazy to handle things themselves is an immediate red flag for me. There are far too many recruiters floating around these days (more than in the past I think).
The going agent comission for a NET varies province by province but is normally around 5000RMB. Which is a chunk out of any departmental budget. That kind of money can easily get you an advert on a decent website or two and then you can actually interview the candidates yourself, rather than rely on some random bod to "recommend" them to you.
It's not just effort though, it's personal responsibility. Hiring NETs can be a little tricky and if something goes wrong I think alot of people would rather be able to point to an agent and say "they did it, their fault", rather than take it on the chin. |
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Chronos
Joined: 27 May 2013
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the help guys.....Sorry for the delay in responding....I had a few things come up that needed attention and kept me tied up.
So I agree with all of you and have stayed away from the recruiters that were giving me less than the best advice (to put it politely). I have since started contract negotiations with the college that I mentioned previously. I didn't like a few of the things in the contract and sent it back for revisions. The contact person said I could make revisions if I wasn't happy (its a brand new contract they just created) so I took him up on it. I am waiting for the return of the contract. BTW, the revisions are mostly clarifications as opposed to changes or demands on my part. The wording was not clear enough and I didn't want it to blow up in my face later. One part for example said that I was to teach "at least" X amount of classes, but had no maximum, which I feared could cause an endless amount of classes being dumped on me, without any compensation increase.
In the mean time I had a couple of other recruiters offer me other uni positions. One is in Guangzhou and the other in Dongguan. I know a bit about Guangzhou, but nothing about Dongguan. The one in Dongguan pays less than the Guangzhou uni, so I don't know which is a better living situation per se. The good thing about these two recruiters is that the contract is directly with the school and not the agency, so they seem more legitimate. They have sent me sample contracts and it shows the school name and then a space for my name. The others did not do this. So I feel a bit better about these two. If they make a commission off of me, well that's the way life goes, I cant begrudge them making a living as long as it doesn't hurt me.
If anyone has any input regarding Guangzhou VS Dongguan I would love to hear it. Also what parts (district) of each city to stay away from, etc.
Thanks again |
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Timer
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Posts: 173
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| Chronos wrote: |
Thanks for all the help guys.....Sorry for the delay in responding....I had a few things come up that needed attention and kept me tied up.
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Good idea with the contract details. Schools use these kinds of tricks to screw you. You can bet that your hours would jump after you started working and you wouldn't have anything to fight with.
Those kinds of recruiters are the best type. The school pays them to find a teacher and connect that teacher with them. That pay is completely separate from your pay so it doesn't affect you. Your contract is with the school so it's all good. |
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Chronos
Joined: 27 May 2013
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Good idea with the contract details. Schools use these kinds of tricks to screw you. You can bet that your hours would jump after you started working and you wouldn't have anything to fight with. |
Thanks Timer
Another question that I have for you experienced folks is basically, when is it a done deal? Since I am looking at three offers, I have to pick one and turn down the others but I don't want to turn down anything prematurely. So, when do you know that one is a done deal? When you sign the contract, when they return it to you, when you get the invitation letter or some point I haven't mentioned?
Thanks |
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ResearchID
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| Chronos wrote: |
When you sign the contract, when they return it to you, when you get the invitation letter or some point I haven't mentioned?
Thanks |
From my understanding, once you have the invitation letter everything is good to go. Though, I would let one of the veterans weigh in before taking my memory into account. |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| Chronos wrote: |
| Another question that I have for you experienced folks is basically, when is it a done deal? |
It should be a done deal when you sign the contract and they return a stamped copy to you (all done by email, no need for physical copies at this stage). At that point the FAO should start the process of applying for a Work Permit through their provincial SAFEA office and begin to get the invitation letter ready (and stamped by various different agencies). That's all quite alot of work, so don't sign the contract unless you are happy taking the job.
That said, this is China, so guard your interests and have a Plan B. |
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Chronos
Joined: 27 May 2013
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| GuestBob wrote: |
| It should be a done deal when you sign the contract and they return a stamped copy to you (all done by email, no need for physical copies at this stage). |
Interesting that you should mention this because one of the schools is asking me to sign and return the contract by FedEx, or DHL. After readings many posts here, I was under the impression email was enough. Any ideas why they would ask for this?
I agree, about having a plan B so that is why I haven't closed any doors yet.
Ch |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| GuestBob wrote: |
| Chronos wrote: |
| Another question that I have for you experienced folks is basically, when is it a done deal? |
It should be a done deal when you sign the contract and they return a stamped copy to you (all done by email, no need for physical copies at this stage). At that point the FAO should start the process of applying for a Work Permit through their provincial SAFEA office and begin to get the invitation letter ready (and stamped by various different agencies). That's all quite alot of work, so don't sign the contract unless you are happy taking the job.
That said, this is China, so guard your interests and have a Plan B. |
it's never a done deal.
not every school follows the same procedures. they don't always email
you a stamped copy of the contract. why? cause the contract you signed
is not a valid contract. it's a placeholder. it's your 'intent' to sign a contract
that allows the school to apply for a work permit. once you arrive, you'll
sign the real contract (READ IT CAREFULLY), which will be duly stamped
and sealed. oh, almost forgot. the english translation is for reference only.
in case of dispute, the chinese version takes precedence.
for your situation, you could say it's a "done deal" when you receive the
EMS package with the work permit and invitation letter. plenty of unqualified
(and sometimes qualified) applicants have their work permit
applications denied for varying reasons. there are also occasions when
the school will find a gooder applicant, or at least one already in china
not needing the paperwork hassle. you only find out after waiting a month
or more for your document package to arrive.
a wise man once said "That said, this is China, so guard your interests and
have a Plan B." |
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Chronos
Joined: 27 May 2013
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
it's never a done deal.
a wise man once said "That said, this is China, so guard your interests and have a Plan B." |
True......wise words indeed.....but can you apply to two schools at once in case one falls out (or finds a better applicant) and have a plan B that way or do you guys mean, to have an open mind to anything else that comes along later? I can't sign two contract can I, and bail out on one later when everything is really finalized?
Because, by what I have read here, you need to get your Z visa in the USA, so I really couldn't go to China and see what happens after I get there. I have 7 months left on an L visa, so I could go there and visit friends, but then wouldn't I have to return home to get a Z visa if I find a job?
Another question I had was about the visas. If I still have 7 months left on my L visa, and I apply for a Z visa, does that cancel out my L visa or will they both be in effect? I was thinking of arriving a week or two before work begins to acclimate, but didn't want that to impact my 30 limit for settling in with the authorities for the Z visa. I realize I may not have a choice.
Ch |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| Chronos wrote: |
True......wise words indeed.....but can you apply to two schools at once in case one falls out (or finds a better applicant) and have a plan B that way or do you guys mean, to have an open mind to anything else that comes along later? I can't sign two contract can I, and bail out on one later when everything is really finalized?
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Apply to two, accept one and get through the paperwork as quickly as possible with them whilst stalling the other. Don't sign a contract with two schools - that's a Richard move and not necessary (after all, if you are so uncertain about your first place, why are you going to work with them anyways?)
| Chronos wrote: |
| Another question I had was about the visas. If I still have 7 months left on my L visa, and I apply for a Z visa, does that cancel out my L visa or will they both be in effect? |
The L Visa will be cancelled and the Z Visa will be in effect. No option here.
The process to get your in-China medical and FEC takes about two weeks all told (maybe a little less) and the RP application needs to be submitted before the 30 day deadline - the whole thing does not have to be processed and returned by the 30 day deadline. Unless your FAO is a total spoon there should be no time pressure.
Although it's been two years since a swapped a visa for an RP. |
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