Job Discussion Forums

[Pilot in Command]

Check it out:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39011

[johnslat]

Dear Pilot in Command,
Thanks for the links. However, I'm afraid I place about as much "faith and trust" in WorldNetDaily as I do in Fox News.

Examples:

http://www.fff.org/comment/com0308l.asp

http://www.lacarte.org/fairness/sexuality/boyscouts/42.html

http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/comments/765/

http://www.fff.org/comment/com0309b.asp

http://mediamatters.org/items/200405030003

"WorldNetDaily (WND)is one of my favorite websites: I plugged it in my "Bookmarks" column not so long ago. It is often informative, and, more importantly, it never fails to entertain. Here, for example, is my favorite WND ad: "Who Really Rules the World?" the front-page headline asks, and WND has an answer: "Dr. Monteith reveals how secrets societies have directed civilization!" Click, and you are confronted with the cover of the Good Doctor's "incredible but true" tell-all book, The Dark Brotherhood. "Most people don't realize they exist because their minds have been conditioned to reject any thought of such organizations." Get out your tinfoil hats, guys and gals, and set yourself down for a nice long read: for a mere $12.95, the secrets of the ages are revealed. Such a deal!"

from

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/pf/p-j042001.html


"Not quite as potent but certainly as vivid of transmitters of far-right memes are a couple of well-read Webzines: NewsMax and WorldNetDaily. Both have at various times been funded by right-wing guru Richard Mellon Scaife, who has on several occasions displayed his own predilection for extremist beliefs. Certainly these two Webzines reflect that. (Both magazines, incidentally, also carried breathless coverage of Bob Schulz's anti-tax campaign.)

WorldNetDaily in particular has been extremely conspiracy-prone over the years. In the run-up to Y2K, for example, its major theme was the Patriot belief that Clinton intended to use the social chaos certain to proceed from the looming technological disaster as a pretext for declaring martial law and thereby establishing his dictatorship. Of course, one of the chief promoters of this theory was the zine's editor, Joseph Farah, who penned numerous columns on the subject."

From:

http://www.cursor.org/stories/fascismix.php

Regards,
John

[Pilot in Command]

I agree, John, that some of the reports found at WMD are questionable at best. I dont rely on them exclusively. You can see by my links that I use a variety of news sources.

But I don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water...they're not ALWAYS out in left field.

I hope for the sake of the Americans in the Magic Kingdom now that this article is true. And I certainly believe that, if true, it's something the Saudis wouldn't want to share.

It's open season on Americans there now.

By the way, what news organization(s) do you trust?

[johnslat]

Dear Pilot in Command,
A very reasonable answer, and I appreciate it. Besides, I'd say that the article probably IS pretty much "on target" (heck, even a stopped clock is right twice a day). I know fair number of people who hadn't planned on leaving this year, but are now doing so.
As for your question:

[Pilot in Command]

Thanks for your response, John.

Oh, I in my previous post I meant to type "WND" rather than "WMD." Could be a Freudian slip...

[Nomad Dan]

About trusting news organizations...The BBC always "feels" so dang credible. SKY News too...Must be that accent.
Fox News makes me throw things.
Very scary...
If ya'll want news from Dallas...Here it is...from Scoop Nomad
More American citizens were killed today alone in Dallas Texas than in the entire year so far in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia...
One beheading even...but that was an elevator malfunction.
There it is folks. You heard it here first.
Nomad D

[Pat]

Interesting perspective.
The same could be said of Washington DC, Baltimore, New York, St. Louis, LA, and numerous other US cities.
Security precautions are necessary, probably more than in the above mentioned cities, but numbers don't lie.

News media need to report and sell. Readers/viewers need to think.

[Pilot in Command]

Yes, numbers don't lie. Neither do stats. Raw numbers aren't the issue, and comparing crime rates to terrorism is comparing apples and oranges.

You're much less likely to be the victim of crime as an American in America than you are to be a victim of a terrorist act as an American in Saudi Arabia, where you're specifically targeted BECAUSE you're an American. In addition, many Americans there "stick out like sore thumbs."

The Saudis have played both sides of the fence, and now they (and we) are reaping what they've sown.

Report after report indicates that support for Al-Qaeda exists deep into the Saudi government. The terrorists have most likely infiltrated the Saudi "security forces" at every level as well.

There's nothing America can do to protect Americans in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have refused to allow armed private security, and they're not allowing the US to send in our Special Forces in situations like the kidnapping and the Khobar slaughter.

You're right, Pat! People need to THINK.

Think things are going to stabilize or get better there?

[ntropy]

[Cleopatra]

Actually, Sky News ain't so bad - despite being a Murdoch channel.

Proof: they regularly get criticised by the Israeli embassy for being "anti-Israel" - which is code for saying they are in fact reeasonably objective, something the Israelis are not used to from a Murdoch channel.

[johnslat]

I know, I know - the Arab News is not exactly a bastion of truth and a shining example of freedom of the press. Still, I think it's encouraging that they'd print an article such as this one:

"Slaughtering Our Honor
Abdurrahman Al-Shayyal, Arab News �

When Friday comes around next week, it will be hard for me to shake off memories of what happened last Friday. On a day known to all Muslims for its spiritual nature, the day where they rest or go out with their families, a group of deranged individuals slaughtered a father and a husband in Riyadh.
Whilst they laid out their reasons, it doesn�t make them any more sane or understandable. The feelings that have been aroused in people all around the world were of disgust, of shock and of great sadness � all because of what some Muslims did on a Friday, on their holiest of days.
This wave of violence that has swept across Saudi Arabia does not surprise me. The sermons and behavior that have been a constant feature in our society were bound to lead to this if not more. How can you expect to convince a 30-year-old fanatic that what he is doing is wrong, unethical and pure madness when for the past 20 years of his existence he has been the subject of a long, highly intensive extremism course?
The course, along with its donations in cash and kind to gifted students and the high-level networking it presents are attractive to many of Saudi Arabia�s youth. Whilst not all of the participants are poor and uneducated, the potential the course offers them to advance their worldly status is rather attractive.
Disregarding the material benefits, the course does offer many spiritual rewards in the hereafter. The blessings one gets when dealing with a non-Muslim in the rudest and most violent ways are simply uncountable. As for killing him, infinite blessings and rewards await in paradise.
Teaching children from when they begin to interact with the world for over 12 years about Islam in a way that is confrontational and rigid only serves to fuel the fires of hatred. Further inflammation through the Friday prayers and evening sermons then whips up a fire so big that it will consume a huge area before it can be put out � just as we are seeing now.
Whilst there has been a massive and concerted effort to prove to the world our balanced and moderate approach to religion, our scholars should be more critical of what they have effected. What is needed isn�t just an apology or a justification of their positions but a stop to all such activities and taking a long and serious look at their actions.
The unaccountability of the self-appointed scholars in Saudi Arabia has to stop. Being a scholar should make one more accountable, rather than put one beyond criticism. How is it that someone who preaches fire and brimstone to thousands every week is free from wrong whilst anyone who questions him is vilified and maligned?
The taking of a life is something understood by every culture and humane religion as a gruesome and inhuman action. A further question would be how inhuman are those whose actions and pronouncements lead to such vile behavior.
Not all Saudis were gullible enough to believe the vitriol fed to them at schools, mosques and youth centers. Yet they have remained a silent majority. Now something has to be done and done quick. The reputation of Saudi Arabia as an exporter of terrorism, extremism and a rigid Islam around the world has to stop. The negative economic, social and political side effects of these events touch upon every single Saudi in and outside Saudi Arabia.
Students abroad, businessmen in the country, political affiliations and cooperation with other countries will all be at risk. Students will not be able to continue their studies, foreign investment will dry up and governments will look to alternative regional partners. Far more important to me than all of this is the hijacking of religion by people who are shortsighted, uneducated and have offered nothing to the development of Saudi Arabia.
It is painfully ironic, when looking back into the annals of Arab culture, to see how Arabs prided themselves and were known for their honor, generosity and hospitality. Now we are known for a completely different set of qualities, and our honor has been ground into the dust. Unless we all stand up and overturn the extremist hold on our country, then we can only expect more bloodshed. As a result our honor has been slaughtered along with the innocent lives that were taken and the innocent minds that were brainwashed to the point of no return."

Regards,
John

[Cleopatra]

Yes, John - you're right, it is good to see AN publishing articles of the type you posted.

however, if would have been much, much better if the Saudi press (the English language papers are beside the point) had done something of the sort ten or even five years ago. Now the cat is well and truly out of the bag and there is only so much that "mea culpas" like this can do. Articles like this prove that, whatever its pretension to "indepence" the AN is still an instrument of the state.

[johnslat]

Dear Cleopatra,
The past is unchangeable - all that can be done is to try and change the present so that the future will be better.

[Cleopatra]

I think the Saudis have definately "woken up" - to the fact that they have helped create a Frankinstein's monster which has turned around and attacked them - as mosters do.

So, I see articles of this sort as nothing more than a form of rather desperate self-preservation tactics, because the Saudis know they are under threat. that said, I agree with you that marshalling the forces of moderation and tolerance is a big improvement to encouraging extremism as a form of self-preservation - which is what the Saudis did until,oh, last year.

[veiledsentiments]

Like JohnS, articles like this do give me cause for a glimmer of hope. We know that the change is going to have to come from the inside. There are two comparable situations in modern Middle Eastern history.

One is Lebanon. Their ten year long civil war where everyone changed sides a dozen times so that not only could Muslims and Christians kill each other, they could kill their own co-religionists. With the help of Syria as (mediator? peacekeeper? semi-occupier?), everyone was able to admit that they were sick of fighting and go back to what they had always been best at - wheeling and dealing and partying.

But, a closer situation is probably the Islamist movement in Egypt. It built slowly through the years, eventually deciding that picking off tourists was a good way to attack the government's main cashcow. They took potshots at the trains and buses - blew up a few Greeks one day thinking that they were Israelis. But, then there was the attack at Hatshepsut's temple in Luxor where they shot and hacked their way through a large number of tourists from many countries. The Egyptian population was so shocked and appalled and disgusted that it was basically the end of the Islamist movement. Within days the leaders renounced violence. (and they have pretty much kept that vow) Hundreds ended up in jails because their neighbors no long kept quiet to protect them.

Both of these situations took years. The problems in Saudi have been building for years. But, what it will take to change it is when the majority of the people start to think like the man who wrote that letter.

Of course, I suspect things will continue to worsen until the US military is out - and I mean completely out - of Iraq - including the dozen or more bases that Haliburton etal are frantically constructing all over Iraq.

VS