Job Discussion Forums

[sicklyman]

actually,we're all missing the point. The real weakness of the list was that it didn't go up to 11.

[johnslat]

Dear sickleyman,

No . . . no - you're thinking of the Commandments:

"The Eleventh Commandment (Ronald Reagan): "Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."

It's being broken A LOT these days.

Regards,
John

[Chancellor]

[johnslat]

Dear Chancellor,

"However, teachers need to maintain a certain amount of professional distance from their students."

Could I get a feet/inches benchmark for that (or meters/centimeters would be OK)?

Regards,
John

[Sashadroogie]

Absolutely, Chancellor. Which is what Spiral, and I, were saying too. 'Bonding' with learners, or other similar phrases, always raises alarm bells with me. It sounds far too familiar. Even a non-creepy, non-flirty type of 'getting to know your students' approach has to have limits - i.e. not crossing the well-established professional boundaries.

Of course we need to treat learners as people, and know something about them. But the most important thing we need to understand is that very often most of them do not really care all that much about us or any attempts to 'bond' with them. They just want to learn a language primarily, funnily enough.

[Sashadroogie]

[johnslat]

Dear Sasha,


"Of course we need to treat learners as people, and know something about them. But the most important thing we need to understand is that very often most of them do not really care all that much about us or any attempts to 'bond' with them. They just want to learn a language primarily, funnily enough."

What I was trying to point out in my post is that some stuffy, patronizing pedant's idea of "professional distance" could (and would, I hope) be quite different from yours.

The term "professional distance" is too subjective to have any real, practical application - in my opinion.

In addition, you seem to be ignoring my comment that knowing about one's students and teaching content are NOT, by any means, mutually exclusive.

Regards,
John

[Sashadroogie]

Dear Johnslat

Of course you are not being ignored - perish the thought. But establishing rapport covers knowing something about your students. At least, it does to me.

Now, are you calling me a stuffy, patronizing pedant? The only thing I'll admit to is the pedantry. See the recently revived Pet Peeves thread : )


Best wishes

Doctrinaire Sasha

[Denim-Maniac]

The 'professional distance' thing is interesting.

I came into teaching from a sales background. It could be suggested that successful salesmanship is based on solid product knowledge, a belief and trust in your products, a track record of after-sales care, aggressive closing techniques etc. Ultimately though, successful sales was built around people, rapport building, knowing your clients and 'being liked'. A common phrase was people buy from people they like.

I wonder how much is also true of learning? People learn from people they like.

Id like to think there is some truth in that ... of course, I could be just using this to paper over the cracks in my teaching techniques, but rapport building is one of my strengths and I like to think I work in an environment where its useful. Its a very different environment to some discussed in this thread, but to be honest ... Im not so sure Id enjoy working in a place where keeping a real distance between teacher and student was important.

[Sashadroogie]

Keeping professional distance just means not intruding into your students' personal lives. Going out for a drink with them, for example, is all very well and good, but it is important to realise that a boundary has been crossed. How many salesmen would do that with their clients? Depends on the size of the deal, perhaps. But how many other professionals would? Of course, the boundary is not always clearly-defined, e.g. class asks you to go to the cinema with them one evening - OK or not? Probably not a problem. Younger age-group invites you to a house party? Moving closer to that blurry line.

In any case, a lot of these misunderstandings can be cleared up by realising that we are not friends of the learners. We should be friendly, approachable, take some sort of interest in who they are etc. But never make the mistake that our emotional connection with them is based on a real friendship. It is not. Friends do not have to pay course providers for quality time.

It is a little like a sleazy TEFL cowboy school owners telling employees that 'we are all family here'. We are not. We are staff members who expect to be paid regularly.

[spiral78]

For me, I build rapport based on our shared goals. Those range from micro (let's make this class time as productive and interesting as possible) to macro (how does what we are doing in this class/semester/course support your overall aims?).

I may presume that I know their overall aim (to get the degree in the field they're studying in, usually), or I may learn more about their individual professional interests through the projects they choose to write and present about, but it's all focused on what we need to do in class.

For first introductions, we define what we need to know about each student in this particular classroom situation, and focus on that. Usually includes things like where from/how long here/ languages spoken/past study in English (not study OF English, they've obviously all done that), etc. Then I can take this information and (hopefully) link it to the goals of the course.

But I actively discourage their telling the class about their families or their ages or anything that a professional at a conference wouldn't include in his/her introduction to professional colleagues.

[Denim-Maniac]

Again, Id say I think its common to invite customers to golfing days or other events. I remember having an employee go-karting evening that customers were invited too as well. I also went to a black tie event in a 5* hotel that our key clients were at ... very very common I think.

Like I said ... maybe Im just defending my position

Social activities and relationships are actively encouraged in my job ... and whilst I may sometimes question some of the practices of my employer, this 'social' aspect to the job certainly isnt one of them. Its a big plus for me.

Last Friday night we had a class dinner ... the school gives us some money and the 3 class teachers go out for dinner and drinks with the students from that single class. Last week it was 14 of us, and several members of the group went to a bar together afterwards. Is that crossing a line? I dont really think so ... and I feel it enriches the learning experience for the majority of students and I enjoy that aspect of the job a lot.

For me, crossing the line is allowing something personal to unduly influence the classroom experience. TBH, you'd have to live like a hermit or be unfriendly to not connect with adult students in my location. If you go to any of the popular bars or restaurants you almost always see students.

Taking out a couple of 20 year old female students and getting them drunk on tequila is obviously crossing the line. But enjoying wine and a good meal, and possibly a good conversation, with professional adult students ... not a bad thing surely?

(I should just add that my students are not studying for an exam / are not generally taking courses paid for by an employer / study general English rather than ESP classes ). Like the teachers, they are also short term residents in this location rather than permanently living here. A fair number of them actually come here to enjoy the area as well as study, with academic goals often being secondary.

[Denim-Maniac]

[DrTongue]

Certainly size matters. Right now my fall writing class only has about 50 people in it -- that's considered on the light side of average for the two of us running the class. No idea how many will be in my speaking class, but last time it was 6, which I think is about max for what we do. Obviously I use different approaches to build rapport when I'm team teaching a class of 50 - 70 people versus running a class of 4 - 6 by myself. I'm comfortable in both contexts, though I realize that not everyone would like that.

But then I've also got advising duties. These students will never be in my class because they're assigned to me later in their academic career. For the most part I only see them a couple of times a term, but each semester there are one or two who need extra help. Often there are very sensitive issues involved. While we have professional counselors available, students often just want to talk to me. It's not my favorite part of the job because I hate to see people hurting, but it is satisfying when I can help. Yet we still have clear boundaries and a professional cast to the adviser-advisee relationship. Although I'm friendly, I make it clear to my advisees that I'm not a friend but an advocate, someone who can assist them in getting through this professional program that they're paying all this money for. Much as I like my job, there are times when I wish I were working some place where the students were coming just for the sheer fun of learning a new language. Of course that would entail a very different approach on my part.

[Chancellor]