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Online v face-to-face teaching
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MdSmith



Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Online v face-to-face teaching Reply with quote

Hello all

I am just curious to hear your thoughts on this. With the rise of e-learning do you think in future more and more will turn to the internet to learn English or will the social/live interactional aspect of learning a language in a classroom setting still be viewed as the most effective and enjoyable option?
Cheers.
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would be very hard to begin learning a language via internet. Groups or individual language learning sessions may start to take off in cyber space for people who already have a thorough grounding in a language. Perhaps if they wish to maintain their speaking skills or target a particular area such as business English, e-learning would be a good option.

The non virtual classroom is still my preference as the more enjoyable option because of its immediacy and ambience. To me, a computer screen sets up a kind of barrier that doesn't readily facilitate more natural communication possibilities. However, practical limitations might be surmountable with really well developed software programs.
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Andrew Jordan



Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to teach through Skype; for beginners, it was useless. The higher level students who came to me with specific goals were the only one I was able to help. I can imagine specialized software that would help beginners but that would be expensive and thus negating one of the main benefits of studying online.
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew, how "beginner" were your students, and what sort of materials were you using?
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E-learning is nothing new. Sure, communication tools are getting better and better, but I do not think this will have as much of an impact on language learning as some might predict. CD-ROMs, if you remember them, did not replace human teachers, despite dire forecasts. And before them, 'linguaphone' cassettes didn't really have much of an impact of teacher employment rates either.

I think the same will hold true with Internet-based lessons, for the same reason. Learners want to speak to a real person, not a machine, or a transmitted image of a teacher from miles away. How many of us like leaving messages on an answering machine? Or prefer using a touch screen ticketing terminal in a railway station in a new city or country, when you have to option to speak to a real person and complete your transaction that way? Look at the criticisms levelled at TOEFL-iBT - many concerns about the dehumanising effect of speaking into a computer mic.

If one is in any way attached to a 'holistic' or communicative approach to teaching and learning, then e-learning is not really going to feature largely in your world. Or the learners', for that matter.
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used Skype as a student (French). I found it an excellent tool if (drumroll, please) you use a qualified instructor who knows how to give a proper language lesson.

It wasn't that much different from a real classroom in that sense. I'm sure nearly all students prefer a real classroom, but it is a decent alternative to those of us who can't use a traditional classroom due to circumstances.
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

artemisia wrote:
I think it would be very hard to begin learning a language via internet. Groups or individual language learning sessions may start to take off in cyber space for people who already have a thorough grounding in a language. Perhaps if they wish to maintain their speaking skills or target a particular area such as business English, e-learning would be a good option.



I mostly agree with this post, both as someone who has taught online and someone who has learned a language online. I have been working for a well known online school for over two years now, and a lot of the beginner students who know no English do struggle a bit at first, especially if that is their only venue for learning. During the time I was teaching I saw student start at a high beginner level and move to a high intermediate level with only the online learning platform. Some beginner students are very motivated and do do well. Personally, I wouldn´t do it myself as a total beginner. Due to the expansion of the company I work for into Brazil I became interested in learning Portuguese and took an intensive live course for 3 months and after that continued taking classes online, both with a structured class (Babbel) and a live one on one conversation class once a week, and have reached a high intermediate level solely with the online classes. I also think that the motivation of the individual student makes a big difference. For me, living in a very small town, learning online is the only option anyway. I do think as the internet becomes faster and more stable in various countries that more and more people will begin to learn online. I have also taken craft classes such as sewing or crocheting classes online, and they have all been as good, or better, than classes I took live. It will be interested to see how things develop over the next few years. Just for reference, the company I work for had 45 teachers when I started, and now has close to 1000. I have also moved from position to position in those two years, no longer teaching, but working in a supervisory/teacher trainer role now
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

santi84 wrote:
I have used Skype as a student (French). I found it an excellent tool if (drumroll, please) you use a qualified instructor who knows how to give a proper language lesson.

BadBeagleBad wrote:
..as someone who has taught online and someone who has learned a language online.

Interesting, because I don’t have experience of either teaching or learning online.

It sounds as though online learning has already taken off and not just for gaining qualifications. I usually find face to face interaction a more motivating way to learn, but I've started seriously considering an online option as a way of regaining (then maintaining) my own language learning level. I spent so long learning the basics and it frustrates me that I've already ‘lost’ so much ground. I mean, what was all that bloody work for? (I sometimes ask/lecture myself). It’s been very hard to find a nearby language class/teacher that meets my particular needs. I really need speaking practice above all else so I’ll have to have a mosey around online.

BadBeagleBad wrote:
I have also taken craft classes such as sewing or crocheting classes online, and they have all been as good, or better, than classes I took live.

I wouldn't have thought this would work with more practical subjects so very interesting that you've done this. I think language learning has a similar kind of practicality to it. I’m not saying it’s not academic in nature as well, but languages are still mostly treated as a purely academic subject in secondary schools.
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Andrew Jordan



Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The most difficult class was a student with only a dozen or so words in English he knew. And I didn't know anything in his native language. But even students around the pre-intermediate stage (knowledge of basic tenses and couple hundred words of vocabulary) was difficult. I believe I was using scanned pages from "The good grammar book" by Swan? and "New English File"
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

artemisia wrote:
santi84 wrote:
I have used Skype as a student (French). I found it an excellent tool if (drumroll, please) you use a qualified instructor who knows how to give a proper language lesson.

BadBeagleBad wrote:
..as someone who has taught online and someone who has learned a language online.

Interesting, because I don’t have experience of either teaching or learning online.

It sounds as though online learning has already taken off and not just for gaining qualifications. I usually find face to face interaction a more motivating way to learn, but I've started seriously considering an online option as a way of regaining (then maintaining) my own language learning level. I spent so long learning the basics and it frustrates me that I've already ‘lost’ so much ground. I mean, what was all that bloody work for? (I sometimes ask/lecture myself). It’s been very hard to find a nearby language class/teacher that meets my particular needs. I really need speaking practice above all else so I’ll have to have a mosey around online.


I prefer face-to-face as well, but with a newborn, there was just no way for me to get to a class. Being able to book my lessons 24 hours in advance while wearing my PJs and having the sleeping baby in the room made it possible for me to continue my French studies. It was expensive ($30 an hour) but I had a properly qualified teacher, so it was basically my own private lesson in-home, except I was in Montreal and she was in Lyon! Smile
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artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 875
Location: the world

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

santi84 wrote:
I prefer face-to-face as well, but with a newborn, there was just no way for me to get to a class.


Yes, it must have been much easier and also interesting to have that more international contact. I seem to remember from another thread that you were stuck in a language class with an inexperienced teacher and classmates that didn't want to speak French. The online experience sounds much more satisfying by comparison. I turned up once to an “Advanced (ha!) conversation” language class that was conducted primarily in English – a real disappointment.

I haven’t considered online teaching myself. I’d be quite interested to experience it as a language student first and see how it goes.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now, you can Skype on your HD big-screen TV:


Share all of life’s little surprises on the big screen
With Skype on TV it’s as if you’re all in the same room. Wide-angle views mean you can share the big picture—and the whole story. (Even if the little mischief-makers would rather you didn’t.) "

http://skypeonyourtv.com/?UA-40925519-1

Regards,
John
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The most difficult class was a student with only a dozen or so words in English he knew. And I didn't know anything in his native language. But even students around the pre-intermediate stage (knowledge of basic tenses and couple hundred words of vocabulary) was difficult. I believe I was using scanned pages from "The good grammar book" by Swan? and "New English File"


Andrew - I haven't used English File, but for total beginners, I think using a grammar book online is going to be tough. It would be interesting to hear others povs, but more communicative stuff to begin with - at least to get the basics of name, nationality, age etc would probably have helped.

I wouldn't call having a couple of hundred words of vocab a pre-int level. In fact, even if students have a technical understanding of grammar / tenses, they'll be struggling to communicate online (or face to face for that matter) without lots of teacher help.

When I taught online, we'd use the classroom time for functional / communicative stuff. With the platform we were using, we couldn't get a whole page of equivalent text book in the screen, so we'd keep grammar explanations and exercises to 'bite' levels (sending longer versions as offline exercises and homework). Lots of text is even more unappealing on a screen, so reading comps etc were much, much shorter.
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

santi84 wrote:
I prefer face-to-face as well, but with a newborn, there was just no way for me to get to a class.


After having done both, I have to say both have their strong points and weak points. With my in person Portuguese class I had to put up with a teacher who was often late, a couple of classmates who were always unprepared, so at times the class lagged. The teacher was excellent, and some of the group activities we did were both fun and educational.

I feel like I am advancing more with my one on one internet class, though, because I can focus on the things I feel I need to focus on, and ask as many questions as I want without waiting my turn, haha, it´s always my turn.

Plus, I live in a town of 12,000 and there are no language schools at all, much less one that teaches Portuguese. I also have a couple of email pals that I write to, since it is more important for me to be able to write well that to speak well, though, of course, I want to be able to do both.
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timothypfox



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492

PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On-line teaching pays very poorly compared to face-to-face teaching.
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