Job Discussion Forums

[sui jin]

I had a similar strict warning from my boss at a previous Uni. This was connected to another foreign teacher at the Uni who had opened a language school in the city, and jealous rivals had 'shopped' him to the police. It is the police , not your school , who will check language schools and foreigners' credentials.
THe FT in question continued to teach his private pupils in the Uni apartment , and the Uni authorities were fine with this because he was not plying his trade elsewhere.
I would wait to be approached by your students' parents about 'after hours tuition' , but be very discreet about it. As yours is a high school , I can't see why they would object to you teaching students at weekends etc.

[Bud Powell]

My experience at my last school:

Upon the wall of my living room was nailed the rules of the house, and one that appeared on the contract also appeared on the 20"x30" poster: No working on the side. I took a few jobs because I got the feeling from the FAO that it was okay with her.

Then I talked to another FT who worked at a nearby college and he told me to drop whatever I was doing because it was a very bad idea to work on the side. Two senior party FAO's in town wanted to control all of the work that was in the city and in the outlying areas. I told him of a ridiculous offer that I received through a local language school to teach at a school that was about 30 minutes outside of town. His response was that he had been offered a position at the same school but turned it down despite the pay; in all likelihood, he said, the two local senior party FTs would get wind of the job and split the job up and send their own FTs down to take positions there.

That's what happened, and it was his school from which they drew the teachers. His school put three teachers on a bus twice per week to teach at a high school for no extra pay. The FAO pocketed the pay. Apparently, the two local colleges where the senior party member FAO's worked regularly overhired for the purpose of lining their own pockets.

My advice: talk to teachers at other schools to learn the attitude toward extracurricular work. My belief is that in some areas, the powers that be are cracking down on ALL illegal workers, including those who are working outside their legal contracts. It sure seemed like that's what was happening in my city.

[Voyeur]

No one has any clearer info.? Surprised. The distinction between side work being illegal in all cases for someone on a Z visa, and only being illegal without permission of your primary employer, is a big one.
And both could reasonably be true.

[JZer]

It may not pay as well, but you could teach online. Then you won't have to worry about the powers to be in China.

The money can be deposited in a bank account in your home country.

[Bud Powell]

[Voyeur]

Thanks for the tips Bud. Having worked in Korea, I am familiar with the application of the law being fluid, at best.
But I often like to at least start with the law, which is usually clear in and of itself, and which provides me some kind of overarching context.

But I see now that even the laws aren't clear, because many are at play. If you had blanket permission to work in China (citizen, married, etc.) you could still violate tax laws by not reporting. Or you could violate education business laws if the school you work at as a second job isn't legal. For Private lessons, you might have too many kids in a non-approved room/apartment and be violating the frickin' fire code. So while I'm sure there are some concrete legal answers--at least as far as the actual letter of the law goes--they are probably complex, deal with overlapping authorities and regulations, and tough for any foreigner to straighten out.

All we know is that working for our primary employer is okay. After that, everything is some kind of risk. Speaking of risk, anyone have any idea what kinds of fines can be levied? As with the rules, the downside is probably murky too. But even any anecdotal evidence would be better than nothing. We talking immediate deportation for teaching a private? If not, would the gov't prevent you from getting a legal work for a while (effective deportation)? If your school catches wind and fires you, could they stop you from getting work elsewhere?

[vikeologist]

Well, if you want the full scary facts

*Employers will be fined RMB 10,000 for every illegal foreigner employed (up to a maximum of RMB 100,000).
◾Authorities will now also be able to detain any foreigners suspected of illegally working in China from anywhere between 5 to 15 days.
◾In addition foreigners working illegally in China may have to pay fines of up to RMB 20,000 and risk deportation and a ban from re-entering China from between 1 to 5 years.


Also, working for anybody other than your designated employer is illegal. Working with your employer's permission isn't a breach of contract, but it is still illegal.

However, many people do it. It's just that working for another school is risky. I'd say it's incredibly unlikely that doing privates will get you into trouble, unless you're using those privates to sell drugs, have sex with children, spread religion or criticism of the government.

There's nothing complicated here. Other schools bad, private classes, most other things ok.

the only thing about doing privates with students from the school is that many Chinese English teachers make a nice amount of money from doing that, and they may complain. You basically don't want to tread on anybody's toes.

Most do some work on the side. Just be sensible about it. If I had time, I might do the odd class for local nurseries or schools that want a foreign teacher for a small number of classes, (these kind of offers usually come via school contacts), but I would never, ever teach for a school run by another laowai, or start anything that could be construed as my own school or business.

[cormac]

Firstly, as mentioned before, the contract usually states that you can do outside work with the written permission of the school. My last university gave me a letter stating this, and it worked fine at some places that were raided for teachers working on tourist or student visas.

Secondly, without the letter, you are caught for paid work. If your second school says that you're doing it for free, and pays you in cash, you can avoid the hassle involved. I currently work at my ex gf's school and have said that I'm doing it for free as a favour to her. There is no record of any payments from the school to myself, or a contract with the secondary school therefore I'm technically not breaking the law (although she pays me on the side). [id hesitate about doing this with some schools since they're stupid enough to agree but then submit accounts showing payments to you which could be easily traced. I only do this for friends in schools.)

Just ask for a letter. It works and TBH there's no reason for them not to give it as long as you're not working for their direct competition.

[choudoufu]

[cormac]

[Voyeur]

There is may be a difference between working illegally when you should not be working at all (no Visa, wrong visa) and moonlighting illegally when you are at least on the right visa for your primary employer. Though if that distinction exists, it may be a distinction in the application of the law rather than the law itself.

My school is a pretty straight-laced, competitive school. I get the clear feeling that what they really want is for all their teachers to avoid any private, paid entanglements with the students and their parents that could lead to charges of favoritism, etc. In fact, private work isn't mentioned in my contract at all. And the more I hear about things from my school, the more I get the impression that what they really care about is that I don't do anything involving our students.

But I'm not at the stage now where I feel comfortable bringing up the topic, much less asking for any kind of written permission to work at some other location.

I agree that working a second job at a training center or private school of some kind is more dangerous than privates, but if I can't get privates organically from parents/students/colleagues at my main school, getting privates could take a long time. I'm not sure how to accelerate the process.

[vikeologist]

Get a Chinese person to put an ad up (in Chinese) on a local website or forum. (if you don't have Chinese friends yet, find someone who'll do it for a flat fee or something like that).

Include your qq number in the ad. use the qq translate function if the people who contact you can't speak English, (quite likely if they're wanting classes for their kids). They'll feel a lot happier though if you've got a Chinese friend that they can ring to discuss the whole thing with before contacting you.

This is one way to do it. Your success in getting clients will depend on your marketing and negotiation sills.

I'm not saying it's easy, but there will be a lot of potential clients out there. just bear in mind that you have to market to them, (ie in chinese). Don't expect them to find you.

[Bud Powell]

"... i thought it was illegal to work without the proper documents,
and doesn't matter whether or not you are paid for it..."

My FAO told me the same thing. I couldn't even give it away. I wonder what would happen if someone were to call the police on a social gathering of a couple of FTs and a group of Chinese adults? A lot my Chinese friends initially sought me out largely because they wanted to practice their English. (Of course in time, real friendships bloomed and they realized what an absolutely charming person, I am and how much fun I am to be around, etc., etc., etc.).

[dakelei]

Might be a stupid question but I'll toss it out anyway: Is it expressly forbidden for a foreigner to teach private students in his own home? I know a lot of Chinese teachers do this. I've seen quite a few who even have mini-classrooms set up in their homes for this purpose. Are THEY breaking the law? I'm asking because I'm considering getting a spouse visa and teaching private students exclusively in order to free myself from my current contract. (I'd give notice, of course. No lectures, please.)

[dakelei]

Might be a stupid question but I'll toss it out anyway: Is it expressly forbidden for a foreigner to teach private students in his own home? I know a lot of Chinese teachers do this. I've seen quite a few who even have mini-classrooms set up in their homes for this purpose. Are THEY breaking the law? I'm asking because I'm considering getting a spouse visa and teaching private students exclusively in order to free myself from my current contract. (I'd give notice, of course. No lectures, please.)