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If you are extorted to buy invitation or release letters...
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CFTU-Beijing



Joined: 25 Jan 2013
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: If you are extorted to buy invitation or release letters... Reply with quote

According to both provincial and central government statutes, the law clearly mandates that teachers be provided invitation and release letters by direct employers free of charge.

Despite this, we at the CFTU receive about a dozen complaints a week about teachers being shaken down for money by either principals or agents for anywhere from 1,000 yuan to 20,000 yuan for these letters This is super illegal and if it happens to you, we urge you to contact us after redaing this link: http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.com/2013/09/scam-alert-for-china-foreign-teachers.html

We will send you a free copy of China's labor laws in English and notify the Ministers of Labor and Education as well as SAFEA and the local Procuriate and Police that you are being extorted - a serious crime in China that can cause a school to lose their license and an agent to be jailed for up to 1 year.

Don't be intimidated and when you engage in conversations with the principal or agent about these matters. Always anticipate a surprise and use your mobile phone to record the conversations since you will rarely get a demand for payment in writing or via email.

Screen Print No. ESLCAFE14-9.21.13
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Always anticipate a surprise and use your mobile phone to record the conversations since you will rarely get a demand for payment in writing or via email.


Dicey, check relevant laws concerning the recording of some one unknowingly....
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoBillyNO wrote:
Quote:
Always anticipate a surprise and use your mobile phone to record the conversations since you will rarely get a demand for payment in writing or via email.


Dicey, check relevant laws concerning the recording of some one unknowingly....


And China doesn't have webcams and such in buildings recording us sometimes unknowingly too?

China filters the internet and probably has people looking at what we type unknowingly too. You could probably say you got any recording off the internet and wasn't the one who actually recorded it.
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BlueBlood



Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chinatimes wrote:
NoBillyNO wrote:
Quote:
Always anticipate a surprise and use your mobile phone to record the conversations since you will rarely get a demand for payment in writing or via email.


Dicey, check relevant laws concerning the recording of some one unknowingly....


And China doesn't have webcams and such in buildings recording us sometimes unknowingly too?

China filters the internet and probably has people looking at what we type unknowingly too. You could probably say you got any recording off the internet and wasn't the one who actually recorded it.


The Chinese government has webcams practically everywhere, and especially in BJ, SH, and GZ (not to imply they're scarce in other cities).

I find this one of the many ironies of their government, considering actual policemen on the beat often (perhaps usually?) cannot be bothered to do a d@mn thing when a fight breaks out on the street, or some idiot is yelling and threatening people after he breaks an hour+-long cue to get in the front of a line.
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Javelin of Radiance



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chinatimes wrote:
NoBillyNO wrote:
Quote:
Always anticipate a surprise and use your mobile phone to record the conversations since you will rarely get a demand for payment in writing or via email.


Dicey, check relevant laws concerning the recording of some one unknowingly....


And China doesn't have webcams and such in buildings recording us sometimes unknowingly too?

Recording conversations, using video cameras, taking photos in public places of anyone and anything is legal almost everywhere. There's no expectation of privacy in public places. Recording privately is very different and may be (probably is) illegal. I'd cancel any conversation with someone if I'd noticed they turned their mobile on to record. Displaying this low level of trust isn't a good way to start a relationship.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

given the consensus that foreigners won't get a fair hearing in any
chinese court, secret recordings just might get you sent to jail without
passing go or collecting $200.

fortunately, the chinese foreign teachers onion...blahblahblah
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kungfuman



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

choudoufu wrote:
given the consensus that foreigners won't get a fair hearing in any
chinese court, secret recordings just might get you sent to jail without
passing go or collecting $200.

fortunately, the chinese foreign teachers onion...blahblahblah


I'm sure it is as helpful in an emergency as (insert your country's) embassy when you need them
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kungfuman wrote:
I'm sure it is as helpful in an emergency as (insert your country's) embassy when you need them


granted. and their advice will be just as questionable.
but at least your embassy won't be spamming forumses.
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Recording privately is very different and may be (probably is) illegal.


How do you prove it was private? Why would someone admit they recorded in private? Just say you got it from the internet, from a computer, from some public place.

The other person would have a hard time establishing it was private unless the person recording corroborated their claim.
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How do you prove it was private? Why would someone admit they recorded in private? Just say you got it from the internet, from a computer, from some public place.

The other person would have a hard time establishing it was private unless the person recording corroborated their claim.


So you just got a private conversation regarding a subject matter that only concerns you and the person recorded and your going with the story that you got it off the internet. Intention is at the core of decisions as to legality and to assume that all public recording or photos are legal is false. Here and across the big pond on your native soil. How are you going to use this recording....let the authorities listen to it... if recording someone to show their cheating you may land you in trouble the perhaps an alternative method of incrimination maybe in order. The best person is a physical witness. Remember the buddy system.
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chinatimes



Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So you just got a private conversation regarding a subject matter that only concerns you


The original post was meant for all teachers. I don't think they were singling me or you out.

More to the point, if school A requires money before giving a release letter or invitation letter then chances are good they will do this with another teacher.

Quote:
The best person is a physical witness.


Then it ceases to be private and gives more reason to record.
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A593186



Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just like this user (OP), posing as a user, but in reality a recruiter, agency, etc. trying to get your business by appearing to be on the up-and-up with all these helpful tips.

The so-called CFTU-Beijing is implying and expecting the inference that they are some authorized (by the PRC) of being a valid employee union. Far from fact. This "union" was discussed in the past year or so and it was agreed that they weren't to be taken seriously.

I'd take what he/she says with a grain of small salt and let their website speak tons for what they are.
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CFTU-Beijing



Joined: 25 Jan 2013
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attacking the messenger accomplishes nothing other than to identify yourself as as either an agent, recruiter, or someone who has something to hustle to our fellow teachers.

The OP is about being extorted for invitation letters and release letters. Do you actually have some constructive advice about dealing with the problem or are you content to bash others you never met?

When you are victim of some teaching scam, let's see how quickly you whistle a different tune A593186 - if in fact you are a genuine teacher? If so, then deal with the message of the OP.
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muffintop



Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CFTU-Beijing wrote:
the messenger is either an agent, recruiter, or someone who has something to hustle to our fellow teachers.


Fixed that for 'ya for the sake of accuracy.
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Bud Powell



Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to the City Foreign Affairs office. It's usually located in the police station or some other government building near the main police station. To find the City Foreign Affairs inside the police station, just walk around, and invariably, someone from the city foreign affairs will stop and ask if you need help. Tell him what you've encountered. The situation will probably be treated as a "misunderstanding", and your FAO will oblige and write your letter of release and probably a letter of recommendation. Make sure the LOR is in English.

You don't need to make a federal case out of it. That's a common FT mistake.

Think Chinese. Ever notice how Chinese will advise you "It is not a problem. It is a misunderstanding".

Make sure that you request both letters well in advance of your departure so you'll have time to go to the City Foreign Affairs when your FAO tries to shaft you.
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