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BlueBlood
Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Posts: 261
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 Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Bud, that is fantastic! Frankly I didn't think FT's had much of a chance to teach more interesting classes, unless they had a PhD.
Do you actually prepare a lecture, give it, then answer questions and give homework and/or have midterms, quizzes, finals, etc? Like real college?
I'm getting back into teaching for the first time in forever. So frankly, a year of teaching basic conversational English would suite me fine. Also, when they learn I can speak Mandarin and am patient, I may not have a choice. At least that's what happened in my previous life...
The irony almost killed me: I had a master's and bachelor's, respectively, from two "big time" highly selective American unis, and could speak Chinese. So where did my school send me? Straight to Wen Fan Ban! Meanwhile, a colleague who claimed to have a bachelors from a small Midwest college (I don't think he did, but that's his business) and could say "xie xie," but little else in Chinese, got to "teach" advanced English and get paid to discuss various interesting topics with motivated students who excelled in English. He basically sat at the head of a conference table and led the discussion. One could argue he was getting paid to have an interesting chat about a topic of his choosing for 50 minutes a pop. Nice work if you can get it 
It was what it was. |
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mw182006
Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Banner41 wrote: |
| I have however moved to a multi-national company here in China teaching more or less business English. So, my time in the business world was relevant to the job. I always hear on the forums and in general how teaching ESL is a dead end job. I found it to be quite different. It was a launching pad to a whole new career. One a one page resume |
Coming from the business world, I'd be very appreciative if you'd let me know how you made that transition. Feel free to PM me if you see this, otherwise I think I'm capable of figuring it out on my own. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| mw182006 wrote: |
| Banner41 wrote: |
| I have however moved to a multi-national company here in China teaching more or less business English. So, my time in the business world was relevant to the job. I always hear on the forums and in general how teaching ESL is a dead end job. I found it to be quite different. It was a launching pad to a whole new career. One a one page resume |
Coming from the business world, I'd be very appreciative if you'd let me know how you made that transition. Feel free to PM me if you see this, otherwise I think I'm capable of figuring it out on my own. |
The only corporate work I've done was Saturday afternoon at a US IT company in Dalian. I was approached by a friend of a friend to do this.
From time-to-time corporates advertise for fulltime English-speaking trainers.
I applied for one such in Qingdao with a US-based call centre startup there. Don't have a US accent so that didn't go very far.
I think you could get a portfolio of 2-hour gigs with corporates by cold calling, but which one would be your official employer and sponsor your visa could be problematic.
As staff attendance at the Dalian gig was elective, I found it very hard to get continuity. |
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BlueBlood
Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Posts: 261
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| mw182006 wrote: |
| Banner41 wrote: |
| I have however moved to a multi-national company here in China teaching more or less business English. So, my time in the business world was relevant to the job. I always hear on the forums and in general how teaching ESL is a dead end job. I found it to be quite different. It was a launching pad to a whole new career. One a one page resume |
Coming from the business world, I'd be very appreciative if you'd let me know how you made that transition. Feel free to PM me if you see this, otherwise I think I'm capable of figuring it out on my own. |
I'd be curious (though I'm a long way from this now), to hear from former FT's in China who stayed and transitioned into "real" jobs? Corporate, factory, administration, what have you. I've met many U.S. businessmen who regularly traveled to, and/or lived in, China, and hated it. Simply put, they must have been making serious money to do it.
Moreover, their flights, cabs, hotels, Western health insurance--all that was picked up by the company. Conversely us FT's worry about flights home, $400 "bonuses," Chinese healthcare, catastrophic health insurance, and mold in our uni flat. Yet to further the irony, we go to China completely of our own volition. Life is strange... |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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I OP'd a thread a few years back on transitioning from FT to more entrepreneurial work.
Starting your own school seemed to be one approach. Partnering with a reliable Chinese was one issue raised. |
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Banner41
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 656
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:45 am Post subject: |
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To be honest, I think some people only look for teaching jobs. I always checked out the non-teaching jobs sections and applied to the ones I was qualified for. My Chinese was not that strong but it didn't hamper me. I am not dealing directly with clients, I only deal with management here and up and they all speak some sort of English. You are right about getting hotel, taxi, food, and flights picked up. I actually enjoy the business trips because they always put us up at 5 star hotels and comp all of the food. I get health insurance and retirement from the company. I was a bit tired of China a few years ago but I couldn't turn down the offer. I just renewed my contract and will probably stay here for awhile much to the chagrin of my wife. It was an industry I couldn't get my foot in the door in the US but was easy to do here. My hope is to get transferred to another country one day so, for the time being I am learning as much as I can about the business. One drawback is I don't get those epic long holidays as most teachers but, I get 15 vacation days to use as I please plus the national holidays. So, the plus is that I can go home for Christmas if I want.
My advice would be to not just look at all of the teaching jobs and see what else is out there. Of course the larger cities like SH, BJ, and GZ are going to be easier but I know SZ and QD are coming along as well. There are job fairs time to time in those cities and lots of foreign companies are represented. Some companies just like having a few foreigners around and if you can speak the international language of business. My time spent teaching here was a plus because I wasn't shell shocked when I got here and I am patient when teaching new business concepts. So it's not a total waste. I laugh every time I see people say that teaching esl is a dead end. I think you just have to know how to spin it properly. |
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BlueBlood
Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Posts: 261
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Banner, that is very impressive. I also respect your attitude: work hard and learn as much as you can. That's easier said than done, and takes a great deal more effort than just "trying to collect a paycheck."
Buddy of my dad's owns a relatively small company in China. His unsolicited advice to me was to get in the door (of China) via teaching, then make contacts and branch out into the "real world" after a year.
My response was that I wasn't interested in the real world anymore, and teaching at a uni and commuting to work by foot on a college campus suited me just fine!  |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:09 am Post subject: |
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At the BJ job fair a couple of years ago I interviewed with a Shenyang-based maker of wind turbines.
They asked me how I would suggest they get a foot in the door in Western countries where Siemens has a stranglehold.
I suggested appointing a watching brief agent on a retainer to keep an eye out for opportunities. I suggested the retainer might be of the order of $1000pm.
They recoiled from this.
I added that it was a lot cheaper than making quarterly market visits.
Despite its pitch as a 'where to go after you've finished teaching' expo, there were few non-education exhibitors. |
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Banner41
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 656
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
At the BJ job fair a couple of years ago I interviewed with a Shenyang-based maker of wind turbines.
They asked me how I would suggest they get a foot in the door in Western countries where Siemens has a stranglehold.
I suggested appointing a watching brief agent on a retainer to keep an eye out for opportunities. I suggested the retainer might be of the order of $1000pm.
They recoiled from this.
I added that it was a lot cheaper than making quarterly market visits.
Despite its pitch as a 'where to go after you've finished teaching' expo, there were few non-education exhibitors. |
Yea the job fairs pop up from time to time and honestly I would go even if I didn't need a job. As BlueBlood said, I am interested in making contacts. I have a great German friend I met in China who works for Seimens and I feel I could go to him for opportunities in that company if I wished. Honestly I try to seek out people (foreigners) who are doing business in China and flat out ask them how they got there. It's a hard thing to do if you only stay on campus and just hang with other teachers. You kind of have to put yourself out there. It's not always easy and of course it's not for everyone. I enjoyed the break teaching 18 lessons a week with little to no pressure. I just decided it was time to get back in the game. Better sooner than later. |
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Banner41
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 656
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
An admission: when I apply for a position, I DO submit a generic, summarized resume of perhaps 3/4 page with no names of employers. It's a web-ready affair that states general experiences and length of employment and expected wage.
Whether I apply directly to the school or apply through a recruiter (they're not all bad), invariably, if the school is interested, I am asked for a complete resume. That's when they get the whole ball of wax. I do believe that this has put me a couple of notches above the Ph.D in Life Experiences types, and those who haven't set foot inside a class room since sixth grade. In Chinese universities (as in American universities) CVs ARE circulated among faculty.
So yeah, a short, compact resume to get your foot in the door will get someone interested. If however, one teaches in a university and has university qualifications, they should be stated.
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EXACTLY Bud! Have a very detailed resume when they ask for it. Use the short one for the foot in the door! |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| BlueBlood wrote: |
Bud, that is fantastic! Frankly I didn't think FT's had much of a chance to teach more interesting classes, unless they had a PhD.
Do you actually prepare a lecture, give it, then answer questions and give homework and/or have midterms, quizzes, finals, etc? Like real college?
I'm getting back into teaching for the first time in forever. So frankly, a year of teaching basic conversational English would suite me fine. Also, when they learn I can speak Mandarin and am patient, I may not have a choice. At least that's what happened in my previous life...
The irony almost killed me: I had a master's and bachelor's, respectively, from two "big time" highly selective American unis, and could speak Chinese. So where did my school send me? Straight to Wen Fan Ban! Meanwhile, a colleague who claimed to have a bachelors from a small Midwest college (I don't think he did, but that's his business) and could say "xie xie," but little else in Chinese, got to "teach" advanced English and get paid to discuss various interesting topics with motivated students who excelled in English. He basically sat at the head of a conference table and led the discussion. One could argue he was getting paid to have an interesting chat about a topic of his choosing for 50 minutes a pop. Nice work if you can get it
It was what it was. |
In Chinese universities, so many of the FTs are morons and poseurs. Recently, a longtime friend of mine met a new FT at a local university who introduced him self with: I am a psychologist. You are not to talk to me without permission, If you want to see me in my apartment, you are to email me and set up an appointment, etc., etc., etc.. NUTCASE.
I suspect that most universities expect their FTs to be nut jobs. When I first arrived in China, I presented authenticated degrees from the U.S. State Department as well as from the Chinese consulate. When I signed my contract, I left a detailed resume with a publication list. Some of the publications were still easily found online. I attended grad school on a scholarship. I had a teaching assistantship with three letters of employment from professors who had moveed to greener pastures at much better universities.
tThe FAO read it all and said, If you're so great, why are you teaching in China instead of the U.S.?"
My answer: "Because there are no university teaching jobs, and I love Chinese food."
For some reason, the FAO thought that was hysterically witty. In a short time, I was given second and third-year writing classes, argumentation, and a history class. I also judged senior thesis presentations (largely because the students spoke better English than the Chinese teachers did).
The lectures were no big deal. I chose interesting subjects such as semiotics (nonverbal communication) and compared western semiotics to my perception of Chinese semiotics such as body language and asked audience members to join in.
I gave lectures in American history on topics selected by the foreign languages department or other departments that had a large number of English speakers (more than one might expect). I often had to turn down lecture assignments because i wasn't qualified to speak about the subjects. I could speak to architect and engineering majors about designs of American buildings and associated history.
Ni never gave homework. I'd never see these people again. The lecture was just an opportunity for enrichment. A lot of times, they turned into sort of a question-and answer session.
I knew my limitations and stayed within them. Some people seem not to know their limitations. they have a sixth grade education, but they're ready to discuss the Great Vowel Shift at length.
If you give the school a good reason to believe that you are what you say you are, and if you can engage a group of people for an hour, you'll have a good experience. From this forum, I've learned that there's a big difference among teaching for language centers, international schools, and primary and secondary levels. I can't do what the primary and secondary teachers do. Hats off to them.
Back to the subject. I must agree that a short, sweet, general and generic resume in the beginning is the wisest thing. Then when one is asked for more, give them more. When you arrive, give them everything. Just be sure to talk to someone in a position of authority. Otherwise, you'll be just another slacker uni FT. |
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