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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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 Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
| muffintop wrote: |
| To any person ignorant enough to believe the garbage they link all the time....please post what happens when you ask your boss for a 2,000RMB/month raise and use the CFTU 'data' to support your argument. |
I figure I'm on the first bus out of town 
As some guy from Zimbabwe is on the next bus into town. |
hmmm.....so what you're saying is.....that if i follow the alleged union's
so-called advice, i'll be replaced with an even lower-paid non-native
engrish speakr?
in that case, i suspect these CFSU sockpuppies are collaborating with
evil, greedy recruiters to drive down teacher salaries and pocket even
more of their ill-gotten booty. |
Yeah I think this theory is worth investigating. Might turn out as you say, that the Chinese FOreign teachƎr Pup sucker union is in cahoots with other evildoers, that being the school owners. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Getting one person from SAEFA to confirm a story means absolutely nothing.
SAFEA doesn't even answer the phone. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Bolt wrote: |
| I have a contact at SAFEA (obtained quite a while ago) and I am sending her the below link to ask her to confirm. |
yes, please. i would love for someone at safea to confirm:
"...we do this with the cooperation of the Ministry of Education and SAFEA..."
and
"China's first and only private labor union." |
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Sarcastro
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 89
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Bolt wrote: |
Ask the CFTU and SAFEA, they are the ones that keep figures. I only quoted the above link. You guys always want to nit pick, spell-check, bash, or split hairs, rather than talk about the comments or ideas of the OP. Is this news not a good reason to be asking for pay raises? When was the last time you got a raise, how much was it, and how much are YOU earning now? Why not answer these 3 simple questions before attacking the messenger yet again so we can have a meaningful dialogue here. I am always for making more money than less. Aren't you? If you disagree, no problem - just explain why you disagree. |
PFFFF if anything my experience shows, they will try to play less.
I was given 30 days for a BS reason from my boss. Boss calls me in to renegotiate two weeks later because he cant find anyone to replace me. The highest offer he was able to give me was LESS of an hourly rate than what I was before and only 300 RMB more in salary per month.
I told him I wasn't going to come back for less money and he declined to comply. He had absolutely no one to take my place, couldn't find anyone, and still couldnt even give me my orginal pay, let alone a raise. How could you expect some unverified, BS publication to make him do it? |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Bolt wrote: |
| vikeologist wrote: |
| So basically by SAEFA confirmation, you mean that someone you met once who said they worked for SEAFA hasn't got in touch with you to dispute a manufactured news story they don't know exists. |
No my friend. That is not what I said. I said I am sending her an email with the link tonight and asking her to confirm the census results. If she still works there I think she will respond. If I don't hear back from her in a day or two I will call there and ask for her. IF I hear back from here I will post something accordingly.
BTW... do you really doubt loads of teachers have been leaving China? |
Vikeologist addressed NP1970 but Bolt answered as if he's NP1970.
What am I missing here? |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Vikeologist addressed NP1970 but Bolt answered as if he's NP1970.
What am I missing here? |
You're not MISSING anything here, you're UNDERSTANDING something here.
| Quote: |
| SAFEA doesn't even answer the phone. |
Or e-mails. |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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It's sort of obvious, but I'm not sure anyone's posited it.
Maybe CFTU are deliberately trying to drive up salaries by reducing the number of foreign teachers by
- lying about what potential teachers can and should be earning
-encouraging teachers to demand and expect unrealistic salaries
- making teachers feel that they should be leaving China.
On the whole though, I think that they (he) has just constructed a belief system for himself. It's not accurate, but he's invested so much into his view of the Chinese ESL world that nothing we say is going to puncture it. None of us see the world completely accurately, CFTU just less than us. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| funny how Helena/A3654.215 is not all over these folks about the illegality of unions in China. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
It's sort of obvious, but I'm not sure anyone's posited it.
Maybe CFTU are deliberately trying to drive up salaries by reducing the number of foreign teachers by
- lying about what potential teachers can and should be earning
-encouraging teachers to demand and expect unrealistic salaries
- making teachers feel that they should be leaving China.
On the whole though, I think that they (he) has just constructed a belief system for himself. It's not accurate, but he's invested so much into his view of the Chinese ESL world that nothing we say is going to puncture it. None of us see the world completely accurately, CFTU just less than us. |
Those are certainly possible scenarios. FTs leaving reduces the competition and could--- I said could--- drive up the pay for those who don't leave.
What bothers me is that there is a lot of negative publicity out there against CFTU, things such as allegations that CFTU has set up teachers to be caught for engaging in illegal teaching. I haven't been able to find anything that supports such allegations. Whoever is throwing this stuff out there is putting a LOT of effort into the process.
It's not worth arguing about. An organization like CFTU just can't exist without help from the inside, something that can't happen. As said before many times, that would have to be SAFEA. SAFEA is a Potemkin village, a false front. It doesn't even try to act like an advocacy organization. If anything, SAFEA is an obstructionist apparatus by virtue of the fact that it really doesn't do anything.
Want a more sinister theory?
CTs are behind CFTU to make FTs personae non gratae because they seem to be uniting against the status quo. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
| An organization like CFTU just can't exist without help from the inside... |
um, dude.........there, like, ain't no CFSU!
there's like ONE nutjob in tinfoil underpants living in his parents
basement, spending his days creating an endless supply of
spambots, designing fake websites, writing fake articles in fake
"magazines."
the only "inside" is the inside of an asylum.  |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:06 am Post subject: |
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CFTU Conspiracy Theory Number One
If anyone is interested in going further down this rabbit hole, here's a link to an echinacities link, where, basically, lots of accusations are made about CFTU, and then other people respond to accuse the echinacities guy of....
well, it's well worth reading yourself.
http://answers.echinacities.com/question/china-foreign-teachers-union-actually-chinese-run-operation
Maybe you'll find yourself believing that CFTU are really the good guys. You'll start to doubt yourself. You'll start to believe that every single blog and community board posting in China is really just the work of 2 people, including this one, or maybe just one person.
Confused? Friend., we've only just started.
Conspiracy theory Number Two
It seems that CFTU may in fact be a for-profit company called Clever China Cheaters Ltd.
Eslteachercafe.com claim they've exposed them here.
http://china.eslteachercafe.com/topic2799-cftu--china-foreign-teachers-union.aspx
One thing's for sure, this website http://www.cleverchinacheaters.com/ is definitely by the same people/ person.
I honestly have no idea what the truth is anymore, apart from the fact that you can't believe anything you read on the internet, or even here.
I'm a member of another prominent Chinese expats forum, under a different name. When I joined it I chose a different name because, well frankly I though I'd been a bit of a dick in some of my early posts here.
Unfortunately it's quite common for people to send me messages asking me if I agree with what 'Justlikemrbenn' (my alter ego), has written on the other forum about my University. I'm verifying my own subjective opinions by accident. Once someone actually makes an effort to create multiple identities, then it becomes very easy to get people to believe things that very well may not be true. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
| 'Justlikemrbenn' |
I thought this was you. Wanted to ask you privately but....thought it was such a silly thing to ask about.
Not too many from over there still posting here. Or at least not openly admitting we still post here.
BTW...great post. Thanks for the links |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:33 am Post subject: |
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I don't see how anyone could possibly waste so much time hanging around various sites posting all over the place. Bad enough when people do it under one name but with multiple handles it almost becomes a full time job. Same goes for those people who can't resist commenting on every single news story they read.
The prospect of the internet taking over my life has me thinking whether or not i even want to post anything any longer. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| has me thinking whether or not i even want to post anything any longer |
That thought occurs to me quite often these days. Every time I come on here to see what's going on it seems like the sky is falling (again). The old "super tax" that was done to death a while back has reared it's ugly head AGAIN. So now everybody's leaving and those that stay won't make any money! |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Especially like this:
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| Whatever the truth, it is clear this union makes up their own facts about themselves as they go along. They should be avoided at all costs. |
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