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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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 Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
| I do agree that there should be some kind of minimum salary. |
sure, but whom is going to decide? will it be the farcical "teachers union"
that exists merely as, well, doesn't exactly exist, per se, like, you know,
in the sense of "being."
nah, it'll be the chinese government, and they'll set a realistic part-time
wage as perhaps 3K rmb, fully taxed, and reduce all allowances to a
basic minimum across the board, and may restrict the ability of schools
to negotiate contracts. and so on.
be careful what you spam for! |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
| vikeologist wrote: |
| I do agree that there should be some kind of minimum salary. |
be careful what you spam for! |
In what way am I spamming?
I'm sorry you weren't able to understand what I was trying to communicate. I'm looking forward to the criticisms of people who actually read what I wrote. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
In what way am I spamming?
I'm sorry you weren't able to understand what I was trying to communicate. I'm looking forward to the criticisms of people who actually read what I wrote. |
not you, of course. i meant the spamming from the spammers union.
the criticism? who sets the required-by-law minimum wage?
i kinda like the way it works now. you see, there already is a minimum
wage. everybody has one.......as in "i personally won't work for less
than xxx."
problem arises, when you set a legal minimum wage, employers are less
likely to pay higher wages regardless of your education or experience.
makes it that much harder to negotiate higher wages, since employers will
already be fulfilling the legal requirements. |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Bolt wrote: |
| vikeologist wrote: |
| choudoufu wrote: |
| vikeologist wrote: |
| I do agree that there should be some kind of minimum salary. |
be careful what you spam for! |
In what way am I spamming?
I'm sorry you weren't able to understand what I was trying to communicate. I'm looking forward to the criticisms of people who actually read what I wrote. |
I agree. Not only should there be a minimum salary but a standard salary based on teaching experience, educational credentials, and market demand. I think the numbers here are very reasonable when you consider what an hr recruiter, stock broker, or foreign advertising consultants earn in China. http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.com/2013/06/china-foreign-teachers-suggested-hourly.html FTs are at the bottom of the expat food chain and our pay raises never kept pace with other professions (their wages grew at over 20% over the last 5 years - on average). Now consider that we also educate the precious one child emperor, er.... I mean, child of wealthy Chinese families (whose parents earn more than us in most cases). Don't we also deserve a fair wage that keeps pace with inflation and COL indexes? |
In which countries exactly do ESL teachers earn the same as HR recruiters, stock brokers or foreign advertising consultants? (Again I stress that I do realise that some ESL teachers do earn the same kind of salaries or even more).
What makes you think that the fairness of a wage has anything to do with the salaries for other jobs. Fairness is a bit of an abstract idea.
Now look, if the school I worked at had trouble finding suitable teachers, I most certainly would try to get the salary for all the teachers increased. But that has nothing to do with fairness. In fact it has everything to do with unfairness.
Of course people should push for pay rises and get whatever they can, but as a big generalisation, there does seem to be a culture in China to see employees as expendable, and that's certainly been true in my experience with regard to foreign teachers. |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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choudoufu - I didn't mean a legal minimum wage. I just meant that creating an assumption, even if it's false, of what teachers should be paid isn't completely crazy. It's just that the CFTU's assumption is crazy.
If we said, "new teachers, you shouldn't accept a job at a Uni that pays less than 5k a month, unless they give you 100% salary for all holidays", would that be ok? If you have a Masters, CELTA, Trinity, 2 years actual ESL teaching experience etc, you should ask for more than the 5k, maybe a lot more. Squeeze them till the pips squeak.
I think it would be helpful for the FOB (Fresh off the boat) newbies to know what they should expect to get paid, and they should also be aware that if they're incredibly lucky or determined, they might score a bit more.
I wish we could say that figure should be 5.5k, but given the job adverts and what people say on forums such as this, I think it's wishful thinking, or in the case of the sockpuppets, delusional thinking. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
| choudoufu. |
okay, but our friends at the CFSU seem to be considering only salary.
no accounting for other benefits or allowances, or regional considerations.
demand another 2K? jinkies, i want a unicorn, too!
we already have a "minimum wage" for newbies at universities. in general,
expect around 5K for up to 16 hours, with apartment, with picc insurance,
with paid winter holiday, with airfare reimbursement up to 10K.
a masters, x years of experience, celte/delta/trifecta? expect maybe a
couple hundred per month. not that they aren't important....just that
they aren't valued here. in china. for teaching spoken english.
we know some places pay more due to higher cost of living or less than
desirable surroundings. and some pay less due to perhaps lower cost
of living or abundance of beaches and bikinis. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| okay, but our friends at the CFSU seem to be considering only salary. |
stick to cash...less trouble... |
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NP1970
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 35
Location: Beijing/Tianjin
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| Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
choudoufu - I didn't mean a legal minimum wage. I just meant that creating an assumption, even if it's false, of what teachers should be paid isn't completely crazy. It's just that the CFTU's assumption is crazy.
If we said, "new teachers, you shouldn't accept a job at a Uni that pays less than 5k a month, unless they give you 100% salary for all holidays", would that be ok? If you have a Masters, CELTA, Trinity, 2 years actual ESL teaching experience etc, you should ask for more than the 5k, maybe a lot more. Squeeze them till the pips squeak.
I think it would be helpful for the FOB (Fresh off the boat) newbies to know what they should expect to get paid, and they should also be aware that if they're incredibly lucky or determined, they might score a bit more.
I wish we could say that figure should be 5.5k, but given the job adverts and what people say on forums such as this, I think it's wishful thinking, or in the case of the sockpuppets, delusional thinking. |
Vike - you are one of the few people here who have ideas and comments that are well thought out and base don logic. Some of the yo-yos come here just to boost their post count and talk out their ass. Minimum wages can in fact be forced upon the teaching establishment if teachers grew some balls and stood up for themselves and each other - especially now when there is a growing shortage of "good" teachers. There will alwaye be plenty of garbage teachers, but you can only fool mothers so long you know. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
.....It's just that the CFTU's assumption is crazy...
.....I think it's wishful thinking, or in the case of the sockpuppets, delusional thinking. |
| NP1970 wrote: |
Vike - you are one of the few people here who have ideas and comments that are well thought out and base don logic. .... |
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NP1970
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 35
Location: Beijing/Tianjin
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Almost every country in the world that teaches English has a minimum wage. Chinese has two versions of "minimum wage". The first is the minimum wage the law requires Chinese teachers to be paid. The other "minimum wage" is the wages paid to expat foreign teachers which is as "minimum" as possible! |
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