Job Discussion Forums

[Volver]

Hello all.

This is my first posting but I have been reading the forum for some time. Now I would appreciate your assistance.

I work at a small uni in Henan Province and the situation just got untenable. The school says they will release me from my contract on December 25 but I need to negotiate at least a couple more weeks out of them. Here are my goals:

1. Work at a uni in Tianjin.
2. Least number of hours I can get. I am after IELTS and side work so the uni is primarily for a visa and place to live.
3. How do I locate unis to contact if I do not find adverts here or on other sites?
4. Will there be a problem with renewing my visa or getting a new FEC? My visa is set to expire at the end of next June.
5. What problems do you suggest I look for at my current job as far as exiting with all pay and flight allowance?
6. I would like to negotiate no classes on Monday so that I can score IELTS papers.
7. What have I missed?

Thank you all for your help and I will provide any info you request.

Volver

[vikeologist]

3. Universities often advertise on sites such as abroadchina.org or http://en.chinatefl.com/ . Apply to all Universities you can find, not just those that appear to have current ads.

4. In theory you should be able to get a new residence permit from your new employer straight away. Although you may not need a release letter if you're moving province, you should make sure you get it anyway. In reality, there may be lots of problems, but it's hard to predict exactly what they will be at this point because there's lots of info missing or as yet undecided.

5. If you're 'breaking your contract', even by mutual agreement, we can't predict what will happen without knowing what's in your contract. Flight allowances are usually paid at the end of a contract.

6. Are you currently an IELTS writing examiner? I think this could be a very difficult thing to negotiate. It's pretty difficult to schedule Uni classes as it is, without a teacher not being available on a Monday. I think that it may be quite difficult getting a job 'mid-year', so I wouldn't make this a dealbreaker.

7. I think the missing thing is ensuring that you have a residence permit and somewhere to live between 25 Dec and the start of next semester which could be 2 months later. Many Unis don't finish until mid January, but maybe finish classes around Christmas time. They may not have available accommodation before the end of the semester, and even then, may not want you around straight away.

I think the other thing you need to be careful about is expecting unis to appreciate what an asset having an IELTS examiner would be. Some Unis may not even want you to do IELTS work on the side (it is after all illegal) and so the examiner stuff could be either an asset or a problem during negotiations. Make sure you make the Uni feel that they'll be your main focus, and the IELTS is just an insignificant something that won't affect your Uni job adversely at all. Basically, don't overplay your hand.

I know it's just semantics, but you don't have a visa. You have a residence permit, and when you leave your present job, your permit expires. If you're going to get a new FEC by 25 Dec, you need to find the new job quite quickly. With all the new regulations and procedures this year, there's a lot of potential confusion.

Anyway, if you want us to predict problems.

-How long have you been in China and in your current job?
-Will you be leaving your current job on good terms?
-Which country are you from?

[johntpartee]

You don't have enough posts for a PM, OP, but I'm curious as to which college you're at. I did a runner in Henan a few years ago because the school became "untenable" (intolerable). When they started ripping off the teachers I asked for a release but they wouldn't do it so I split. Perhaps they wised up and will release teachers instead of finding out at the last minute that they are short a hand. It was Henan Business College in Zhengzhou.

[Volver]

The uni is between ZZ and Shijiazhuang. I was here last year and everything more or less went OK but then I was pretty overwhelmed with this country. This year was a mess. They couldn't recruit another FT and then they wanted us to work 26 hour weeks at Y100 per hour for the extra time. I helped with recruiting for them this summer and sent at least 20 good candidates and they blew every one of them. I stopped recruiting and said that I would take on extra work but not at Y100 per hour. Broke a tooth the night before leaving the States and ran up to BJ to get it pulled (at my total expense) as there were no English-speaking dentists here. Major complications and I was over 4 hours in the ER and several days in bed afterwards. The uni docked my pay for not getting their "permission" and pulled my flight allowance. I told them I would fight like hell and suggested it was better to get rid of me than get into a hassle with the president. The FAO agreed. There were other problems, but this appears to be the big one. Oh, almost forgot the landlord where the FTs live gave us all eviction notices and shut off our power. I didn't get books for one class until 6 weeks into the semester. None of the listening labs could read .pdf files and the what they stole off the Internet doesn't work very well. Pure 3rd rate uni incompetence. Very little side work here unless you enjoy teaching kids.

I guess I am not leaving on good terms. So be it. I'll still try to get a recommendation letter out of them. I am from the US and have been doing your basic oral English classes plus aviation English since last year. No complaints from students. My goal is private work and IELTS but I will probably not mention anything about either.

The living situation and government paperwork is my concern. Hoping to negotiate something that lets me live here longer and start living at the next place earlier.

Thanks for the info.

V

[teenoso]

Why not apply to language schools in Tianjin, then you could start work straight away in January (and get the RP), rather than have to wait until the next Uni semester in March?

A Uni might not want a teacher for March to be in residence so early (at the end of December) .

[vikeologist]

They have to give you the release letter, by law. I think you probably will need it, whichever province you end up in.

Your experience at your Uni sounds fairly typical.

If you're from the States, let's hope you won't need a criminal check. (In theory you would need one for a new job, and maybe have to go back to the States to get it, but I think a lot of provinces have not implemented it. They don't have to. It's a recommendation, not law).

Anyway. If you are an IELTS examiner, I think you should mention it. Just don't let on that will be your primary income stream.

My advice would be to get clear in your head what your priorities are, because I'm not sure there will be lots of jobs, (or rather the ratio of jobs to jobseekers is lower than in September - probably. I'm basing my assumption on an extensive survey I did in my imagination.

From what you've said, you might want

-An FAO who is clearly well organised and competent, because if you take a job and then some unexpected hitch comes up on 24 December, you'll be screwed.
-A city with lots of IELTS work, or at least near to one
-A University near to the city centre, (if you're planning to examine in that city) as you will need to get to the centre on a Sunday morning. Alternatively, you need to be near a train station.

It might be that there are lots of other things which will be much less important than these things, and I would consider whether the free Monday thing is at all realistic. You might need to make some quick decisions, so I'd suggest being very clear about what order your priorities are in. Get a new job, and accommodation etc, agreed as soon as possible. From a risk analysis point of view, getting jobs and permits in China is problematic, as poor nellychess on another thread has discovered.

You haven't actually said you're an IELTS examiner. If you're not an IELTS examiner, and are instead intending to become one, there is a massive hole in your plan, (that hole being that you might not pass the certification).

[BlueBlood]

re the "criminal check"

Vike, I'm from the States, and I've researched this in anticipation of (eventually) getting a job offer and applying for me Z-visa. As with everything about China, it's as clear as mud.

One FT I know didn't have to get one. Period. No probs processing his visa.

Another had to get full-blown "FBI" check; fingerprints and all. Took 6 weeks!

Another only had to visit his local Sheriff's office, provide his identifiers, no prints, no charge, got a report, and was on his way.

And don't get me started on the medical check. I had mine done last month, and won't be pleased if I "need a new one" only to "get another new one" once in China.

How they find any qualified FT's at all is beyond me.

[Volver]

I agree that setting priorities is the thing to do. I guess I should focus on finding a uni with few hours and decent housing where I can move to right away.

Language schools. Hmmm. Hadn't thought of them. I am a bit gun shy of these given all the negativity expressed here regarding them. If it gives me a place to land, then that may offer a short-term solution.

After all, I can always look for something better for next year once I am in Tianjin.

As for IELTS, I do 3 examinations per month and actully love it. It is on my resume but I will not bring it during the interview unless the interviewer does.

V

[jimpellow]

I am curious as to why Tianjin? Not exactly the most wonderful place, but more on topic, it is post September 1st one of the most difficult localities for which to get your visa and permit.

I definitely know that you will need to get a national criminal background check which will need to be signed off by the Chinese embassy and almost positive also your home country's.

You will very likely need to return to your home country for issuance as I was asked to do.

You will need to do the online test - resume building-psychological profile-etc monstrosity they have created followed by an interview. It is good for a laugh though. Have to love some of the interesting choices offered through the drop down boxes.

I believe you will need to prove your two years experience and have all relevant permits for your time in China available.

Talking to my friend there who just renewed his contract, he was oddly asked to prove his original degree and provide professionally translated transcripts for his university work.

I confess to not know it all, but know enough that I would would suggest another locale if possible.

If you do decide to forge ahead I have another friend who is a China veteran who works for Lucky there and is generally happy with pay and conditions.

Tianjin Yinghua International School is who I was dealing with. Pay was excellent though they mostly look for subject teachers.

[BlueBlood]

JP, I know someone who just started a very decent job at a very decent city and college. He never had to get any "criminal check" at all, and his visa was issued earlier this month (US). He also didn't have to "prove" anything re his degree and experience, and was not given any psychological test.

Another individual who happens to be a close friend, does not have a degree at all.

If what you're saying is true throughout China, going forward massive amounts of FT's currently working there would have to leave or work illegally.

[mw182006]

[Volver]

Tianjin is close to BJ but not in it. Huge cost of living difference yet close enough to get into the city quickly to do IELTS scoring. Big city with money and people willing to spend it on private lessons - exact opposite of small towns.

I have never heard of anyone going through the nightmare jimpellow describes which doesn't mean it is not true. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Thanks.

V

[Volver]

I just came across a site called anesl.com and there are lots of jobs on it. It is obviously a recruiter site but that may be OK. Has anyone ever used them?

V

[teenoso]

yes , I used them (angelina's) to get my current uni job - they deal mainly in jobs in the public sector and are semi-official body , I think.

[jimpellow]

Unfortunately, I believe that it is now true. Tianjin was apparently one of the first to require applying for one's visa in their home country. At present there seems to be no post September 1st national regulation, but more localities are requiring it and it seems more and more true that you cannot get a z-visa in a third country (including Hong Kong).

I was asked to do the test in July. Again, not a national requirement, but one more and more seem to be asking.

The criminal background check in Tianjin is post September 1st and the online literature confirms this. If you deal with a school in Tianjin that says otherwise, they have not hired recently and have not done their due diligence.

Odd with my friend staying in the same position to have to provide the translated transcripts and such. He said overall it was a real bitch for renewing compared to his many experiences in the past.

People seem to be blaming the messengers over the last few months for the ramifications of all these stricter rules being implemented (and it isn't over by far nationwide yet). What they should be doing is reading up on them so they can plan and act accordingly.

There is a saying that the one who loves least controls the relationship. I am of the opinion that China has misjudged how much it is adored to be greater than in reality it is. Nothing wrong with trying to keep out the unqualified and the loonies and the illegals etc. Yet I don't know how they are unable to foresee how badly and quickly this is all going to severely and negatively affect their tourism industry, foreign business investment, ESL teacher supply etc.

Get your Filipino and Malaysian bar girls in the big cities while you can, because soon this international cuisine choice will be gone too.