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TamLu
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 19
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 Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:57 am Post subject: Working at a university |
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So now that my CELTA course is done, I'm on the job hunt. I'm really curious about working for a college/university. My aspiration a bit in the future is to be a college professor in the US, so I figured getting some experience teaching in a college here would benefit me a bit.
However, I can't find too much information for teaching at a university. The only one I can find any information on is RMIT. I've been on other universities' websites, but half of them don't have an employment section.
Could someone please help me out and point me towards a resource or 2 to find various colleges and perhaps any tips on getting into a college job?
I'll sum up my details in a few bullet points
-Vietnamese-American (I have an American accent of course)
-Bachelors from one of the top public uni's in US
-No previous teach exp
-Early 20's
-CELTA |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Working at a university |
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| TamLu wrote: |
So now that my CELTA course is done, I'm on the job hunt. I'm really curious about working for a college/university. My aspiration a bit in the future is to be a college professor in the US, so I figured getting some experience teaching in a college here would benefit me a bit.
However, I can't find too much information for teaching at a university. The only one I can find any information on is RMIT. I've been on other universities' websites, but half of them don't have an employment section.
Could someone please help me out and point me towards a resource or 2 to find various colleges and perhaps any tips on getting into a college job?
I'll sum up my details in a few bullet points
-Vietnamese-American (I have an American accent of course)
-Bachelors from one of the top public uni's in US
-No previous teach exp
-Early 20's
-CELTA |
You have a huge advantage if you have at least a basic understanding of Vietnamese. What I did was to Google 'universities in Vietnam' and started from there. There are not too many foreign universities here but what you will find is English run programmes in the local universities which are sometimes in need of someone. It is just about timing. As Christmas is coming up it would be a good time to make some phone calls, show up with a C.V. et cetera.
What will be frustrating, as like you said, many of the numbers and emails are non-functional so the only way to reach them is by showing up. |
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RustyShackleford
Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 449
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:38 am Post subject: |
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I work at college by sheer luck of knowing the right person who knew the right person in charge at the right time. Basic Vietnamese I could see being a huge asset that may well offset your lack of experience if you can show yourself to be more qualified or at least better-suited to the job.
Be interested in seeing how you develop from there. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Working at a university |
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| TamLu wrote: |
So now that my CELTA course is done, I'm on the job hunt. I'm really curious about working for a college/university. My aspiration a bit in the future is to be a college professor in the US, so I figured getting some experience teaching in a college here would benefit me a bit.
However, I can't find too much information for teaching at a university. The only one I can find any information on is RMIT. I've been on other universities' websites, but half of them don't have an employment section.
Could someone please help me out and point me towards a resource or 2 to find various colleges and perhaps any tips on getting into a college job?
I'll sum up my details in a few bullet points
-Vietnamese-American (I have an American accent of course)
-Bachelors from one of the top public uni's in US
-No previous teach exp
-Early 20's
-CELTA |
Teach at least 50% of your classes in Vietnamese and you will be a #1 teacher for sure. 
Most students prefer to have an E class taught in VNese as it allows them to focus more on what really matters: The mechanics of E grammar without actually being able to speak E. |
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TamLu
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Hmmm... This may be a problem because my command of the language is not great. It's at an elementary level at best. =/ Guess it's time to go to the park to brush up a bit. |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:49 am Post subject: |
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Prof Gringo is yanking your chain. Sometimes he's amusing, often merely tiresome.
But he is not wrong here. One thing that puts me off tertiary level jobs is the need to work within the system and the system is to pass tests without necessarily learning the language. They learn about English rather than how to use English. |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| TamLu wrote: |
| Hmmm... This may be a problem because my command of the language is not great. It's at an elementary level at best. =/ Guess it's time to go to the park to brush up a bit. |
Don't worry about it. I've seen these tests and they are often pedantic and WRONG. The students fail to pass unless the unlock the box with some kind of magical key. I think a lot of this heavy grammar based test serves only the people in positions of power and not the students, and helps to cover up a real command of the language. Unfortunately, this is something they also must do to pass...
Anyone can go to a book a look up an obscure language point, but most cannot use the language if they tried. Add to the problem of 'professors' thinking the communicative approach to be non-academic; students find themselves having to go to language centres to learn it all over again.
One solution to this problem is to have two lines of approach: One course focused solely on usage and the second upon structure and both should be run by a native speaker.
They would be very lucky to have you, TamLu. |
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I'm With Stupid
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| vabeckele wrote: |
| One solution to this problem is to have two lines of approach: One course focused solely on usage and the second upon structure and both should be run by a native speaker. |
That depends what the aim of the course is. Are they studying English or are they learning it? A lot of courses seem to claim to be about learning the language, but are actually about studying them. They're teaching English like they'd teach Latin or Ancient Greek. |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:50 am Post subject: |
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The older I get the less respect I have for academic study.
It's OK for a few people but it is NOT the education most people need or can use.
I got into TEFL because it was anti-academic in so many ways. Lately IELTS and EAP programs are becoming more prominent which I think is a step backward.
University jobs are attractive because of better pay and conditions (sometimes) but I think I'd hate the work. |
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8balldeluxe
Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Posts: 64
Location: vietnam
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| I got into TEFL because it was anti-academic in so many ways. Lately IELTS and EAP programs are becoming more prominent which I think is a step backward. |
I wholeheartedly agree. Especially about IELTS. IELTS is a destructive factor in the EFL industry because it appeals to persons who are only trying to leave VN to study abroad and are in a hurry and you the teacher and your IELTS are all that stands between them and their exit VISA and ticket abroad so they want it and they want it now. So your whole lessons are to an audience basically thinking hurry up, this had better be good. They are not incidentally the least bit interested in learning English, and if they had made any accommodations for the friendly, or speaking together routines of communicative English , which they might have gone along with in their general English classes, they by no means have time or patience for it now. Students treat it like one of their advanced algebra classes , or other lecture classes, in 100% receptive mode. Their attitude is, This is my IELTS score, hurry up and tell me what my band score is, and if not, then give me the exact words or phrases that I can memorize to make my score higher. If you can't do that- the what kind of teacher are you? Don't ask me to talk to the student next to me in pairs, or groups, are say my opinion or even think about anything, just tell me the answers so I can write them down and memorize.
IELTS brings out the worst in these students. They also will not participate in communicative or oral practice because they can't believe it is really that simple, that they really just have to learn to be fluent, so even though the IELST books have oral practice and pairwork, the students are even more reticent to do it in an IELTS class. ANd they are often wealthy and have influence in the school so you are in a no-win situation. This originates in the last resort option of having been able to bribe examiners which is ingrained in the collective psyche, and perhaps it happens still, but we don't know.
I have had several students who are professionals, scientists or other established academic persons and they try to correct the IELTS teacher because they think everything should be formulaic , and when it comes to a make or break situation like a test , with so much at stake, they show their true colors. It is particularly bad at Universities , where the whole mindset is heavily into regimented unexpressive way of learning. And IELTS seems to be becoming the dominant authoritative subject there more so these days. It's really too bad.
And then there are the IELTS teachers, the successful ones who are able to pose as an expert in a what is mission impossible, and act like there are shortcuts or insider's knowledge of how to do better at this narrow test. they arent doing any EFL a service at all. By promising that they can help a student do what is in effect cheat their way to a higher score by somehow learning tricks to mimmic a pat test answer is unethical. At some schools these guys would casually stroll up behind me, hand me a photocopy of a reading and pretend to need help, asking me "say , do you know what BAND SCORE you would give this students essay" Im not sure", Yeah right- they don't want your help, because a successful IELTS teacher never admits to not being a total expert. ( you know who you are) They only want to get your uninformed response and tell staff that you are not really an IELTS teacher. IELTS is helping ruin the English teaching business in places like Vietnam.
it's just false promises, on false pretenses, to desperate students who don't want to do the hard work of studying in a regular English class.
Oh- And to the OP poster , if you do land a job at a University here, IELTS is likely what you will end up doing. Because they aren't studying academic English much these days except RMIT. Get ready to learn whole new words for grammar terms you already know- be fluent with a new lexicon of juvenile mumbo jumbo , like saying "linkers" instead of conjunctions, and "transition words" instead of subordinate conjunction or clauses. Basically you will wonder why you bothered to study at all. Good Luck! |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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When I came to Vietnam 5 years back I had a vague idea of becoming an IELTS examiner and teaching at one of the better places - ACET or similar.
Well - I soon changed my mind. I cannot echo strongly enough what 8ball says above about how IELTS is standing in the way of communicative competence in Vietnam (and elsewhere). At the end of the day it's just a racket sucking money out of Vietnam and encouraging students to waste even more money studying abroad.
Vietnamese should study abroad but not at the price charged. It will NEVER be worth it and it delays the needed improvement in local university level education. A very few should go on full scholarships (as they already do) but not at the cost involved otherwise. Better to save the money and use it to set up a business.
I have vowed never to work in any capacity that encourages this brain/cash drain on what is a poor third world country. Hoping I never have to break that vow. |
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TamLu
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is very eye opening for me.
I thought I could still teach some sort of general English course in a university, but this seems to be an unlikely job to come across.
Also, unfortunately, upon even further searches, the college websites seem to lack an employment page, or if they do have one, there's no information on it.
From what I gather, this seems to be a suboptimal time to look for jobs in colleges considering it's not between semester/trimesters, however they time it here. Would I be wrong in this assumption? |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| TamLu wrote: |
This thread is very eye opening for me.
I thought I could still teach some sort of general English course in a university, but this seems to be an unlikely job to come across.
Also, unfortunately, upon even further searches, the college websites seem to lack an employment page, or if they do have one, there's no information on it.
From what I gather, this seems to be a suboptimal time to look for jobs in colleges considering it's not between semester/trimesters, however they time it here. Would I be wrong in this assumption? |
Print out 10 copies of you c.v. get on your bike and hand them out in person. There are a lot of G.E. courses running in universities, just go and find them. Don't get hung up on IELTS, G.E., pronounciation, EAP and the like.
Go and put yourself in there! |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| skarper wrote: |
When I came to Vietnam 5 years back I had a vague idea of becoming an IELTS examiner and teaching at one of the better places - ACET or similar.
Well - I soon changed my mind. I cannot echo strongly enough what 8ball says above about how IELTS is standing in the way of communicative competence in Vietnam (and elsewhere). At the end of the day it's just a racket sucking money out of Vietnam and encouraging students to waste even more money studying abroad.
Vietnamese should study abroad but not at the price charged. It will NEVER be worth it and it delays the needed improvement in local university level education. A very few should go on full scholarships (as they already do) but not at the cost involved otherwise. Better to save the money and use it to set up a business.
I have vowed never to work in any capacity that encourages this brain/cash drain on what is a poor third world country. Hoping I never have to break that vow. |
I still remember my first job in Vietnam and there was this Dutch guy, an IELTS teacher, making 30-35 bucks an hour and I thought this man must know everything about English. He walked around the centre wearing white socks with sandals and an old, worn out T-shirt. I thought to myself, 'this guy is eccentric and must be an intellectual'. Another guy was so sharp I thought he must be a man to be 'on the ball'; turns out he just couldn't think. Just like 8ball mentioned, these guys were very quick to make themselves out as 'professional' IELTS teachers. This one guy had on his resume that he learned how to fly before he could drive a car, suggesting he could 'fly' over all the ground rules and get students better marks by his brilliance.
It seems IELTS has brought about the character of the dodgy car salesman type to the ESL profession (not much of a revelation, but was back then).
When I was teaching IELTS one thing made me happy: there was cohesion in the classroom; everyone had the same goal and worked hard to get there. Teaching IELTS is a system and having structure in VN is heavenly. IELTS and other advanced courses are actually easier to teach a teacher really starts to earn his money at the lower levels of beginner, elementary; boy do we have to work hard there. |
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