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Is my job doomed?

 
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kev7161



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:17 am    Post subject: Is my job doomed? Reply with quote

Quote:
Why China is having trouble getting the whole country to speak Mandarin


http://qz.com/124116/why-china-is-having-trouble-getting-the-whole-country-to-speak-mandarin/

Here's the part that has me concerned (okay, not TOO concerned . . . at the moment!):

Quote:
One former official of China’s Ministry of Education proposed canceling English classes in primary schools to make room for more Mandarin.
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roadwalker



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few years back I met a middle-aged Chinese businessman from Hong Kong who complained that since the return of Hong Kong to China, and the resulting emphasis on students learning Mandarin, that the English level of students had dropped considerably. He said it was hurting business since English is the international language of business, not Chinese. He said it was hard to find graduates with decent English. That was just one "I know a guy...." experience I had but it made sense at the time. If that's the case, it probably was a boon to private language schools. Kev, you work at a private school, don't you? .....There go your plans to retire in China and spend the rest of your years here! Wink
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting aside, Chairman Mao never learned to speak Mandarin.

As long as money remains the most important thing in the world, English will be numero uno.
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dean_a_jones



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is an interesting problem I suppose. I don't really understand why they waste so much time on English education here--particularly when much of it is poorly taught, and thus wastes huge amounts of time producing students who have 'learned' English for 12 - 15 years but cannot really use it in any practical way. I suppose the same could be said about large parts of the education system here, if you compare the amount of overall time children spend in schools and the skills they leave with.

The article talks about some of the political concerns increased focus on Mandarin raises--which makes sense, and it is fair to wonder how much of it is about language and how much of it is similar to the Marxism classes they are forced to take, less about making them great speakers (or political theorists) and more about spreading a nationalist agenda. On the other hand, and as the article hinted at but didn't really touch upon, I would guess that the people who suffer the most in regards to not speaking putonghua are to be found in rural areas--and their lack of standard Mandarin may be one of the things keeping them from education and/or work opportunities. So perhaps spending less time on English in schools and more time on learning standard Mandarin (which is surely easier to ensure better quality teaching) might make a difference. Doesn't mean dropping English entirely I suppose, perhaps just focusing on something like simple, practical English instead. I certainly learned French and German that way for a few years when a student--didn't make me a brilliant user of either, but gave me enough to get by, which is what a lot of these kids seem to have anyway after many years of study.

Whatever the case, there will always be demand for competent English teachers, particularly for those learning English as an essential skill in conjunction with a related degree, or for younger children who hope to do something similar in the future at university or study abroad.
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't really understand why they waste so much time on English education here--particularly when much of it is poorly taught


Excellent point.

Quote:
there will always be demand for competent English teachers


Not unless the schools change their hiring practices (Caucasian [or a reasonable facsimile thereof] and breathing).
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A593186



Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Is my job doomed? Reply with quote

kev7161 wrote:
Quote:
Why China is having trouble getting the whole country to speak Mandarin


http://qz.com/124116/why-china-is-having-trouble-getting-the-whole-country-to-speak-mandarin/

Here's the part that has me concerned (okay, not TOO concerned . . . at the moment!):

Quote:
One former official of China’s Ministry of Education proposed canceling English classes in primary schools to make room for more Mandarin.


Considering (1) the number of English classes in all primary schools in all of China, and (2) the number of foreigners who teach said classes... why is this an issue? The total number of English classes of all levels/grades in China and the number of foreigners in China, let alone the number of foreigners who teach English to children and you don't have to be a statistician to see the lack of any significance.
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dakelei



Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 351
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I teach and live in an area where a local language is spoken by the vast majority of the populace. On my uni campus I hear Mandarin most of the time but as soon as I leave it and am out and about I so seldom hear it my ears perk right up when I do. Many folks older than 40 or so speak Mandarin poorly and quite a few over 60 can barely speak it at all. There is even a TV news program every evening that is conducted totally in the local language. I was under the impression something like that was against the law but I suppose it's not. My wife, who is not really a local but was born in a neighboring city no more than 45 minutes away by car is often pegged right away as an "outsider" as soon as a local hears her speak. It's nuts. For whatever reason locals are very proud of their language and "culture" and speak Mandarin only when absolutely necessary and do so badly with a noticeable regional accent. My wife told me she really wasn't even aware her Mandarin was so bad until she left home to work in Shenzhen for a few years. Sometimes I have trouble speaking with locals because, though I'm hardly "fluent" in Mandarin myself, mine is better than theirs. It definitely IS a problem. China will never truly pull together as a nation if its people can't even agree to speak the same language. I worry the same thing is happening in the USA.
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dakelei



Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 351
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I teach and live in an area where a local language is spoken by the vast majority of the populace. On my uni campus I hear Mandarin most of the time but as soon as I leave it and am out and about I so seldom hear it my ears perk right up when I do. Many folks older than 40 or so speak Mandarin poorly and quite a few over 60 can barely speak it at all. There is even a TV news program every evening that is conducted totally in the local language. I was under the impression something like that was against the law but I suppose it's not. My wife, who is not really a local but was born in a neighboring city no more than 45 minutes away by car is often pegged right away as an "outsider" as soon as a local hears her speak. It's nuts. For whatever reason locals are very proud of their language and "culture" and speak Mandarin only when absolutely necessary and do so badly with a noticeable regional accent. My wife told me she really wasn't even aware her Mandarin was so bad until she left home to work in Shenzhen for a few years. Sometimes I have trouble speaking with locals because, though I'm hardly "fluent" in Mandarin myself, mine is better than theirs. It definitely IS a problem. China will never truly pull together as a nation if its people can't even agree to speak the same language. I worry the same thing is happening in the USA.
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twilothunder



Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 442

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dakelei wrote:
It's nuts. For whatever reason locals are very proud of their language and "culture" and speak Mandarin only when absolutely necessary and do so badly with a noticeable regional accent.


Why is this 'nuts' exactly? And why use culture in inverted commas?

Many examples of this in Europe - particularly the Basques in Spain and France.

And although the Welsh speak English fluently, in some areas they speak it only when necessary and are certainly proud of their language and culture.
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kev7161



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the Welsh have 300 different dialects? Laughing Laughing
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davelister



Joined: 15 Jul 2013
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/22/china-english-college-test-gaokao
Quote:
The Beijing municipal commission of education plans to reduce the English section of the all-important college admissions test, the Gaokao, from 150 points to 100 points in major cities by 2016, China's official newswire Xinhua reported.

Quote:
It will boost the value of the Chinese section from 150 to 180 points. Currently, the test weighs English, Chinese and maths equally.

Quote:
Officials have spun the proposal as both a practical decision and a matter of national pride. "The change highlights the fundamental importance of mother tongue in the curriculum," a representative from the commission told Xinhua.

Quote:
Shandong and Jiangsu provinces, as well as Shanghai, may remove English from the Gaokao entirely. Public consultation on the proposal began on Monday, Xinhua reported.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you missed one very important part that would affect foreign teachers:

that reporter dude wrote:
....the change would allow students to spend more time studying oral English rather than blindly copying grammar patterns in preparation for the test....
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davelister



Joined: 15 Jul 2013
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Wu Mengran, a 19-year-old recent high-school graduate in northern China's Inner Mongolia autonomous region, said the change would allow students to spend more time studying oral English rather than blindly copying grammar patterns in preparation for the test.
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Javelin of Radiance



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

choudoufu wrote:
you missed one very important part that would affect foreign teachers:

that reporter dude wrote:
....the change would allow students to spend more time studying oral English rather than blindly copying grammar patterns in preparation for the test....

Actually the reporter dude only quoted someone who said that:

Quote:
Wu Mengran, a 19-year-old recent high-school graduate in northern China's Inner Mongolia autonomous region, said the change would allow students to spend more time studying oral English rather than blindly copying grammar patterns in preparation for the test.

Considering the source, regardless of how much sense it might make, it's unlikely to happen anytime soon.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

welll.....isn't quoting part of writing?

the kid sayed it, the reporter writed it. Laughing
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