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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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 Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:54 am Post subject: Re: MUST READ for newbies - the truth about ESL teaching |
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+1 for Chou'. This post gave me quite the laugh.
Question marks all over like he's the Riddler or something.
Why are all of these scam artists always shouting? Can never speak in normal tones.
DON'T GET LESKO'ED!
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Problem I see is the OP had nothing to do with TSL/TFL, being a teacher of TSL/TFL, nor did it have anything to do with being a teacher.
60K a month, pfff. I make 100K telling old ladies they are never going to die. At least I make them happy. |
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Harbin
Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Perhaps the OP is trolling, but I heartily endorse his comments none the less. This thread thread seems to be the yang to my candid discussion about EFL in China thread, or at least a clever troll of it. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Harbin wrote: |
| Perhaps the OP is trolling, but I heartily endorse his comments none the less. This thread thread seems to be the yang to my candid discussion about EFL in China thread, or at least a clever troll of it. |
I somewhat agree--trolling, perhaps; clever, nope.
I can't disagree with the very basic message behind the OP's post but it does get sloppy pretty quickly.
Ah well, trolling perhaps. I guess some posters here are just looking for their 15.
I do agree with you Harbin: this thread and "the candid discussion about EFL in China" thread definitely work nicely in tandem.
Although my tone in my responses came across as harsh, I do agree with the basic message behind this tandem of threads--one can do well in Our China but if one if going to stick around for a while here in the Middle Kingdom, there are definitely many, many aspects to very carefully consider (of course, obviously). Have to get all one's Beijing roast ducks in a row here fo' sho'.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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Harbin
Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| fat_chris wrote: |
| I do agree with you Harbin: this thread and "the candid discussion about EFL in China" thread definitely work nicely in tandem. |
How does the saying go..... one man's junk is another man's treasure Some people are born snake oil salesmen -- I work with a few -- who have no problem putting on a suit and pretending to be an English teacher, IELTS trainer, businessman, or what ever else they can make a buck doing. And if the Chinese aren't able to see what's going on, I guess they're getting what they deserve.
| fat_chris wrote: |
| Although my tone in my responses came across as harsh, I do agree with the basic message behind this tandem of threads |
I certainly have the same problem. |
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Harbin
Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: MUST READ for newbies - the truth about ESL teaching |
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It's late and I can't sleep, so why not give a point by point response to this thread.
| EuroGuy wrote: |
If your goal is to make EASY CASH, become an ESL "teacher". Honestly nobody at those schools gives a sh@# about your experience, the entire thing is a HUGE ripoff for "students". Sure they learn something but I can only laugh at the "teachers" they hire. |
It has also been my experience that in China people don't contact or check references. When my company applied for my letter of invitation the FEB/PSB/who ever does letters of invitation decided that the phone numbers and addresses on my letters of recommendation from previous employers were false. The letters were genuine, the phone numbers worked, and the addresses were correct and I sent documentation to this effect in the form of both public records and websites. Surprise surprise, my employer resolved this problem with a "gift."
My employer never checked my references nor did the three letter agency responsible for making letters of invitation. But someone did line his pocket in the process.
[quote="EuroGuy"]FIRST:
Get the CHEAPEST TEFL certification you can get. It must be 120h tho! But DONT spend 500-1000 bucks on i-to-i or whatever. I went with Teflmadeeasy and spend 150 bucks. DONE./quote]
Agreed. Don't waste your time on the name brand certificates. You'll never have the opportunity to use what you learn in China because the entire EFL industry is a farce of face. Even if you could teach EFL well, no one actually wants you to do that. Students and Chinese teachers alike expect you to show up and "tell" students about your home country. Forget about teaching vocabulary, the four skills, grammar, or any other practical language skill associated with real EFL teaching. You're here to show Chinese students that all foreigners are funny clowns or bumbling losers and be a conversation bot.
| EuroGuy wrote: |
SECOND:
Lie about your experience, they don't check, they don't care. Have you ever helped ANYBODY understand ANYTHING in school? Yea? Put that down as "tutoring".
BUT you should look decent. If you're "ugly" China won't hire you. It's all about appearance here! |
Rings a bell. Even if you do have actual contactable references, there's a chance that a corrupt official will want a "gift" before your school gets the documents necessary for your z-visa. Why bother having actual references or experience at all? Your school doesn't care, the students don't care, and the bureaucrats are more worried about getting some extra dough than they're worried about who they allow into their country.
| EuroGuy wrote: |
THIRD:
Go with the "school" that pays most. Obviously go to the city you like, but then care about the cash next!!! All the schools are the same (been there, done that!) - the management is a JOKE. Nothing runs smooth anywhere. Your schedule is a mess all the time - you always gotta wing it. |
Agreed. Most of them are garbage and use the same useless lesson plans anyway. Who cares if the schedule is a mess and you don't have time to plan for last minute changes. You're a foreign teacher - just go talk to them.
| EuroGuy wrote: |
FOURTH:
You're important in China. Being white and a foreigner opens all the doors! You don't want to work? Just tell them: "Im not coming" - NOTHING will happen. |
Better yet, why not call in sick for two days before your two days off? You can even do this before long holidays. Got an offer to pretend to be a foreign businessman on a work day? No problem - just call your boss and tell them you can't make it in because you have to put on a suit and pretend to be a foreign investor for the day.
| EuroGuy wrote: |
FIFTH:
What will you really be doing? Well, you won't teach, thats for sure... and once you're here, you will laugh at that too. Centers give you 15 year old lesson plans you read down and guide them through some stupid exercises. OR you do your own thing and just wing it every time - just talk... about anything. Students dont care, hell they love it if you tell them stories! Literally just wing it. Do that for 5h a day, go home. Sidenote: Picking up students at those centers is totally normal as well... so bam: another nice extra  |
Once again, I agree on most of this. There's not a lot of teaching or learning going on in training centers here. On my first working day in China, I was sent to observe a co-worker in a "business English" "class." The topic was hotels and he gave a full hour monologue about how foreigners can't stay at some hotels in China, his favorite hotel chain, how often he goes there, how rich he is, etc. I knew it was going to be a loooooong year.
Thing is the students don't care. The parents don't care. The administration doesn't care. Some of my students are Chinese as a Foreign Language teachers and English teachers, so they have at least some idea of what language teaching actually involves, but they put up with this garbage too.
The only conclusion I can come to is that EFL teaching in China has nothing to do with the E or the L and everything to do with the F. Throw in some gaining face for taking EFL lessons from a foreigner (even if they're really a Russian.......) and you just might be able to explain what is going on in China.
What a wasted year this has been. I'll probably just leave this one off my resume and claim that I spent a year learning Chinese in China. Ah well, 41 days to go. |
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EuroGuy
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: MUST READ for newbies - the truth about ESL teaching |
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Thanks a lot, at least TWO people really know whats going on here ! LOL
| Harbin wrote: |
| Ieven if they're really a Russian.......) |
You got me with this one... do I LOVE the Ukrainian/Russian/or other eastblock-"teachers" - making more mistakes than the students and noooobody cares hahahahaha
Best intro I heard: "How are everybody doing?"
GOLDEN! |
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Harbin
Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: MUST READ for newbies - the truth about ESL teaching |
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| EuroGuy wrote: |
| Thanks a lot, at least TWO people really know whats going on here ! LOL |
I'll be damned if people don't think you aren't me or vice versa. |
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Harbin
Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: MUST READ for newbies - the truth about ESL teaching |
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| EuroGuy wrote: |
| You got me with this one... do I LOVE the Ukrainian/Russian/or other eastblock-"teachers" - making more mistakes than the students and noooobody cares hahahahaha |
The best part is one of my friends is a professional English teacher from a country in eastern Europe. She speaks C2 level English and has all of the necessary credentials to be an actual English teacher, so she recently went around our city looking for a job with her husband, who is a professional of a different variety.
All of the companies who interviewed her told that they were more interested in hiring her husband, who didn't do anything more than follow his wife to her interviews.
Let's see....... mid 20s professional English teacher who has a degree in teaching English or her husband, who has an unrelated bachelor's and master's and blue eyes? The Chinese schools expressed a clear preference for the later.
My friend commented on the fact that it was straight up scary that Chinese "schools" wanted to hire her husband -- who has no EFL teaching credentials, experience, or interest in EFL -- over her simply because he is a slim male with blue eyes. The schools straight up told her that they preferred male applicants to females, regardless of their education or experience. If that's not asking to hire pedophiles, I don't know what is.
edit: My eastern European friend was mostly applying at kindergartens. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:49 am Post subject: Re: MUST READ for newbies - the truth about ESL teaching |
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| Harbin wrote: |
The schools straight up told her that they preferred male applicants to females, regardless of their education or experience. If that's not asking to hire pedophiles, I don't know what is.
edit: My eastern European friend was mostly applying at kindergartens. |
Um....what? |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Me, too. I've know of places that prefer men because in their experience women have been more susceptible to "culture shock".
NB: THEIR EXPERIENCE |
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Mr.Engrish
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 57
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| White North American males followed by White UK Males are the trend these days. Males are preferred over females because its simply a " face " thing. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:57 am Post subject: Re: MUST READ for newbies - the truth about ESL teaching |
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| muffintop wrote: |
| Harbin wrote: |
The schools straight up told her that they preferred male applicants to females, regardless of their education or experience. If that's not asking to hire pedophiles, I don't know what is.
edit: My eastern European friend was mostly applying at kindergartens. |
Um....what? |
I taught at some unruly middle & high schools in Mexico, but there they expected teachers to break up fist fights between students...  |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Me, too. I've know of places that prefer men because in their experience women have been more susceptible to "culture shock". |
This may well be true in a lot of companies....our partnered University in Beijing doesn't want women teachers as they think that they take off more time, use their sick leave to tend to sick children and then bring infectious colds and the like into the work environment. However .... our British University seemingly prefers women as there is a bit of female student attention of male teachers for grade improvements back in Merry Ole England. |
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