Job Discussion Forums

[Robin2657]

Hello...
I have recently started reading posts here, and would like to ask some questions. I am a 53 year old woman considering seeking ESL work in China, as well as some other places in Asia. My background is as a visual artist, with teaching experience in that field. I have taught children in summer programs through talented high school and college students, and adults in continuing education classes. I volunteer to teach ESL to immigrants here in Florida, and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I am on sabbatical (self-imposed) from my own work, and would like to travel and spend time in non-western cultures, specifically Asian. Considering taking the CELTA in Beijing to improve my ESL teaching skills, and my understanding of grammar. My financial position is such that I need a job before I arrive. So.....

Is it best to go through a recruiter, if so, can anyone recommend a good one. Does anyone know anything about Angelina's ESL service. Are they reputable.

I would really prefer to teach young adults to adults.

What kind of salary should one expect. I seems to be quite variable.

Could someone please give me a ballpark on the cost of living in relation to the salaries offered. I can be quite frugal, but would like to save money to keep traveling.

What would be a good, less urban place to teach. Weather is sort of an issue, I am a 45 year Florida resident, but am game for a change. Just not arctic. I also really like living near the water. I like mountains also, and hiking. Interested in art, temples, pottery, and a genuine cultural experience. I hope I don't sound to naive!!!

Could someone explain the difference to me between private and public schools/universities in China, and which are better to work for.

Any advise would me most welcome.

Best,

Robin

[stavrogin2001]

You have a lot of questions and I think that you will be able to get a wealth of advise in this forum. Your questions are very common and I think that you will also get a lot of different opinions from here.

I little about me before I start to say anything else. I am a thirty year old American that has been living and working in China for the last three and a half years. Before coming to China I taught ESL in the States. I found the experience helpful, but much different than the Chinese version of learning a foriegn language. If you love to learn new things and experience foreign culture, this would be a good experience.

I have worked in a variety of situations and I believe that the employer you chose can make or break your overall experience living in China.

I think that a less urban environment can offer more of a "Chinese" experience. The smaller cities I have taught in were much more personal and the FAO, although not always totally understanding, were the most warm and helpful. However I have read on this forum of rural settings where people have been burned. From my experience big city FAOs have treated me more like a cow, only to be herded through my contract. While in a smaller town there were many functions like dinners, banquets, mayors parties, and group tours of the surrounding areas of interest. The drawbacks to small towns would be some things you are used to might not be available. However, China is changing more and more everyday. Coffee, cheese, and western food is worming its way into everyday Chinese life and you should have the ability to get some comfort items if you are a little homesick.

I worked with the above mentioned recruiter and I felt that they were not very helpful. They were a little pushy and wanted only to find me a position rather than give me a lot of information before I agreed to the position. I think in China you will meet a variety of different kinds of HR styles. One more common way will be to rush you through the process and not offer a lot of information. In the end I think this can be ok, but make sure you ask a lot of questions, and generally speaking any school that wants people to start immediately should be avoided. Most state run schools are now recruiting for the next term. It will start in late August or the first of September. If you are interested in working for a university I might recommend the Chinatefl.com website. It has a wealth of univeristies to choose from. I think that working for universities can be the most rewarding, but this is a personal opinion. If you are not worried about "getting rich and saving a lot of money" then universities can be great for the following reasons:

1. Lower hours and more time to actually enjoy China. Usually about 12-18 teaching hours a week. This usually comes to 6 to 9 one hundred minute classes a week. Plus you will have a summer and winter holiday that is an average of 4 or 5 weeks long.
2. The students are all from the age of 18-23 for the most part. Some offer after hours classes that the teachers can teach for extra money and this will be either school age children or adults.
3. Most universities are above board and pretty straight shooting. Salary is from 3K to 5K RMB a month. This should be enough to travel during your time off if you are not flying everywhere. Cost of living can change dramatically depending on your lifestyle in China. Most local Chinese can live on 700 to 1000 a month, but if you are living it up western style it can be as much as 2-4K a month. Most people that are not spending all night in bars can save about fifty percent a month if they don't go overboard. But again, this depends where you are living. If you are coming here to make money to pay your bills at home to, it will be very difficult to make ends meet. Korea, Japan, and Taiwan seem to be the "cash cows" of Asian ESL.

The situation with private schools are not as transparent. They affer a variety of situations, but a few things to think about with private schools are that they:

1. May be more non-standard hours. It could mean nights and weekends or 6 day weeks.
2. Hours can be more and most private schools do not give more than the national holidays as vacation times. Basically it means no Summer or Winter holiday that is beyond a week to ten days vacation.

As far as the CELTA course in Beijing, I am not sure, but the price tag is a little high. I have colleagues that have taken CELTA and TESOL courses in Europe and found it a good experience, but most of the teaching practice done in the schools do not apply well to the conditions on the ground here. The CELTA programs in Europe teach more about small groups of European learners that are dramatically different from their Asian counterparts. It is my opinion <and I know I will open myself up to criticism for this> that in China CELTA is not very useful unless you want to make a career out of ESL or go into management. Most situations you find yourself in in China will be teaching conversation or maybe a literature, writing, or culture class. Grammar classes for the most part of off limits to foriegners at most schools. In my classes when I try to squeeze in a little grammar the students start to get antsy. Most only want to take the opportunity to improve their spoken English and for that I do not think you need a TEFL, CELTA, or TESOL certificate. Especially if you have been teaching in the field before and you do not want to stay in China for more than a year.

I fear that I have made this post too long, but if you have any questions, please feel free to PM me.

[Roger]

I think, teaching English in China is not going to add any momentum to your career, rather any skills or experience you may have will be ignored, and you will be put at the receiving end of local doctrines and teaching methods that are black snow from yesteryear.

Your age will hardly be a hurdle, though.

The major difference between private and public schools is: Private ones thrive on the illusions that the public ones create but leave unfulfilled; people with dough buy "education" by the ton, and that's where the private schools come into the picture. Usually, they are not schools but mere training centres run by tractor drivers.
Public schools are still in the business of forging New Man/Woman according to the Marxist theology. Kids have to undergo weekly brain-damaging sessions in PC-ness, and this routinely puts them at loggerheads with the notion of opening up to the world at large, even by means of using English.

You want to "teach" adults? Sometimes this is highly rewarding - but not very often. Their social skills are rudimentary, and their English grounding is rocky. The longer they have been exposed to Chinese English instruction the rockier it is.

I do recommend teaching at a kindergarten.
That can be fun!
If they give you some leeway...
But beware - the parents usually have Chinese "adults" mindsets and expectations!

Salary range: Public schools 4000 to 8000 a month for 12 to 20 weekly hours;
kindergartens 8000 or more for around 20 to 25 periods a week (half an hour each);
private schools: roughly 80 to 100 RMB an hour, fewer holidays, work in antisocial hours and on weekends and holidays.

[Lee_Odden]

Robin:

I pretty much agree with what has been shared with you thus far.

If you have indebtedness back home, e.g., car payments, credit card debt, other outstanding debt, China, in my opinion, is not the place to be teaching English. An occasional member of this board will boast earning an extraordinary salary (and some do make more money by providing services other than EFL teaching) but, by and large, the salaries are quite low with the average probably being somewhere around $650 - $700 per month. You will get free housing which is usually quite basic with utilitarian furnishings and usually R/T airfare for a one year contract, along with very basic medical care in Chinese hospitals. In one place in your post, you mentioned you were 53 and in another place you mentioned you were 45. Either way, I agree with Roger, your age will not be a hurdle here for most schools. But you did mention that you will need a job before you can come to China which does suggest you are not independently wealthy. Can you live on a stipend of approximately $700 dollars per month? When deciding this, do not be easily persuaded by the recruiters (and others on this board) who will assure you that you do not need much money to live in China. If you want Western products and comforts here in China, you will need to pay Western prices. A cell phone, for example, will cost you no less here than it would in the MCI or Verizon mobile phone store back home. Yes, you can eat a nice Chinese meal here for $3.60 and beer (which is excellent) costs less than water. But when you need to eat some really authentic and nice Western food (and you will have that need), you will have to do it at a 5-star hotel and you should be prepared to pay closer to 12 - 14 dollars per meal. I am an older person like you and I spend, with nice meals 3 - 5 times per week, taxis, odds and ends, clothing, medication, things for the apartment, etc., no less than 6500 RMB each month (780 US). A lot of teachers here live on half of that (of course, they are also half my age), but I have no interest in doing so.

I am not complaining, as I earn more than I spend, but as you can see, there is really no opportunity here to save money (what you and I would call "savings." A 24 year-old, recent college graduate, would probably disagree).

You don't need to go through an independent recruiter (I would probably advise against that), just contact the schools directly. I have a master's degree, teach business English to adults only (through private schools) and enjoy that immensely. But I agree with Roger that teaching here will do nothing positive for your career back home. In addition, I have personally found Chinese bosses to be extremely exploitative and difficult to deal with; far moreso here than I ever encountered back home. Also, be prepared to experience and deal with racism, to varying degrees.

If you have no debt (or are willing to file bankruptcy), no family (or no family that you are close with), no real career to speak of, if you are a very flexible person who likes sudden changes, if you have a thick skin, can deal well with disorganized people and can roll with the punches, if you are someone who craves adventure, then, at age 53 (or 45), you may want to consider an EFL teaching job here in China. Otherwise, stay in Florida my friend. The weather is a lot nicer, the ocean (or Gulf) air is a lot cleaner, you can go swimming most of the year and you can enjoy American television.

This is just my opinion based on living and working in China for three years. Many other people will advise you differently. But, remember, there are major age and SES (socioeconomic status) differences in how people feel about their experiences and the money they make. Keep that in mind.

Lee

[yaramaz]

From what I understood from reading the OP's post, they are 53 years old and have lived in Florida for 45 years, hence the phrase, 'I am a 45 year Florida resident! which is not the same as saying 'I am 45 years old'.

[Lee_Odden]

[Robin2657]

Just want to say thanks so much for your thoughtful and informative responses to my post. Much food for thought. Not sure what's up for me just yet......


All the best

Robin

[TommieJoe]

Tom in Florida.

Robin: I am headed for a school in Guangzhou in August 2004. Sure I did a lot of soul searching before making a decision and I am older than you are........ I posed my fears to Teacher Lindsey ( I like the guy) in a PM. He over simplified it by saying " Where will you be in a year " Still sitting there watching TV and ketching a fish once in a while " He is right. China is a chance of a life time. I am single now. Had a succcesful career and am board to death. I choice a school in a large city so if it goe's south I will have other options. I will have plenty of time and money to see the " real china if necessary. Right now give me HK , Gz and Macau. Some thing else I have heard recently also helps. " When you change the way you look at things, he things you look at change " Come on over. Maybe GZ.

Something else, the school I am to to gave me the email of an American teacher my age who is there. He help has really helped. If you are still in Florda and you PM me I will give you some more details that I have learned.

Good luck
Tom