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big 'n' large

 
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Laura C



Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 211
Location: Saitama

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:29 am    Post subject: big 'n' large Reply with quote

Hi all,

Apologies if there is another, more appropriate, forum for this question -- I'm in a bit of a hurry...

One of my Japanese colleagues is studying for the teacher entrance exams and she asked me the difference between the words 'big' and 'large'. Does anyone have any definitions or examples that would help her?

Thanks from us both,

Laura
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kev7161



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think LARGE is more of a size issue (and a politer way than saying "fat"). The large man, the large football field - - it really lets you know that something is bigger than usual. Big is more widely used to cover a lot of things: Big-hearted, big tipper, big paycheck, etc.

Back in my college days, a teacher of mine said there are two kinds of English: "high" english and "low" english. Low english are more common words that anyone can use (especially a foreign language student), regardless of their educational background or their mastery of english. "Big" would be an example. High english is a more "snooty" (my word, not hers) way of speaking (or a more educated way of speaking). "Wow! He has a big nose!" or "Hmmm, his nose is rather larger than normal, wouldn't you say?"

I have students all the time asking me if they can say it this way instead of that and I try to explain to them that, in English, there seems to be a hundred different ways of saying the same thing. Which do you find more interesting?
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delian



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 40
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that I disagree with any of the explanations above, but have you tried doing a bit of analysis yourself? (or has your friend?)

Concordances for 'big' (from the Brown Corpus - 1 million words)
1 as House of Representatives was an effort by big cities like Dallas and Fort Worth to cover u
2 se lost to the alleged water needs of Texas' big cities Thursday. Rep. James Cotten of Wea
3 ers- Texas, Arkansas and Texas A+ M- made a big dent in the statistics last week. A12 1680
4 just turned on the ignition when there was a big flash and I was lying on the driveway", he s
5 ween the Capitol and the White House for the big inaugural parade on Jan. 20. Assuming the
6 o play while the clock is running, he gets a big kick- several every Saturday, in fact- out o
7 ed out Mills's early pace and beat the young Big 10 quarter-mile king by 5 yards. Both were u
8 Over the first five frames, Jack Fisher, the big righthandler who figures to be in the middle
9 ory over the Air Force Academy. "I think the big thing about the game was that our kids for t
10 he Birds' spring squad at 49 players. The big, 22-year-old shortstop, the 1960 American le

Concordances for 'large' (same corpus)
1 work on the line until then because of the large amount of acid sewage from jewelry plants in
2 ffort by Parkhouse to help Dallas and other large cities get money which Cotten felt could bet
3 the verdict read. The trial had packed the large courtroom for more than a week. A Sterli
4 m St. Petersburg, including Joe Dimaggio and large crowds are anticipated for both weekend game
5 tied in with his aged care plan requests for large federal grants to finance medical and dental
6 RE# The COAHR letter comes on the eve of a large gathering of theater managers and owners sch
7 Robinsonville, Miss. and Helene Rowley. The large municipal hall was ablaze with color, which
8 nly day they "have a chance to compete with large supermarkets is on Sunday", the council's res
9 . The council advised the governor that "large supermarkets, factory outlets and department
10 Gov. Meyner's "Green Acres" plan for saving large tracts of open land from the onrush of urban

(from <http://www.lextutor.ca/concordancers/concord_e.html>)
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Laura C



Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 211
Location: Saitama

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kev7161"]I think LARGE is more of a size issue (and a politer way than saying "fat").

That was my take on it too. But the teacher's guidebook says that you can't use large to refer to a person...

Thanks for the examples Delian. I did give a few similar ones, but the problem I had with this question was that her guidebook seemed to indicate there was very specific usage for the 2 terms, so Iwonderede if there was a linguistic rule I could apply to them.
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can always use 'big' instead of 'large' but not vice-versa.
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Kurochan



Joined: 01 Mar 2003
Posts: 944
Location: China

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:20 am    Post subject: Weird Reply with quote

Laura C wrote:
[[b]quote="kev7161"]

That was my take on it too. But the teacher's guidebook says that you can't use large to refer to a person...
.


These weird guidebooks ... sometimes my students in China will ask about two words, swear they've been taught they mean something different, and ask for the exact differences between them. One example is luggage vs. baggage. Apparently students have been taught they're two different things. They freak out when you tell them a) that they are the same, and b) even if there were a difference, it'd be something so slight it's not worth thinking about.
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dmb



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen Jones wrote:
You can always use 'big' instead of 'large' but not vice-versa.

Any ideas why?
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biffinbridge



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 701
Location: Frank's Wild Years

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:23 am    Post subject: erm... Reply with quote

Large can be used with drinks...ie,'I'll have a large one please'...Oh and Damo ,it's your round and I want the real rum not 'Old Monk'!!
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dmb



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: erm... Reply with quote

biffinbridge wrote:
,it's your round and I want the real rum not 'Old Monk'!!

You'll need to come to Istanbul to get it
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biffinbridge



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 701
Location: Frank's Wild Years

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:31 am    Post subject: re bmb Reply with quote

You're on.I'll bring the 'Laotian herbal medicine' and 'magic papers'.
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lozwich



Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 1536

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just between you, me and the fencepost, gang,

I think Biffy's cracking up!!

In a big way. Wink

Lozwich.
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Ludwig



Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen Jones wrote:
You can always use 'big' instead of 'large' but not vice-versa.

* To a big degree it is ...
* A big amount of the expenditure ...

I would agree with Delian. Corpus analysis would seem the way forward here; intuitions on such matters are often unreliable. You could - with a simple piece of freeware such as 'MonoConc' (concordancing software) - even have the students do this themselves as part of a deductive approach. You might want to examine the phrases that tend to follow the phrase containing the ADJs 'big' or 'large'. There are also set-collocations such as 'big toe' that need to be considered.

Though probably mind-numbingly boring to most, I find corpus linguistics fairly interesting. It is after all how dictionaries and descriptive grammars are produced. The 'big' versus 'large' issue is tackled from the point of view of producing useful information for the second language learner of English in:

Biber, D., Conrad, S., & Reppen, R. (1988) Corpus linguistics. Investigating language structure and use. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what Michael Swan has to say about big and large in Practical English Usage:

105 big, large and great

1. concrete nouns: big and large
Big and large are used mostly with concrete nouns -- the names of things you can see, touch, etc. Bis is most common in an informal style.
Get your big feet off the sofa.
I'm afraid my daughter has rather large feet.


2. abstract nouns: great
Great is used mostly with abstract nouns -- things you cannot see, touch, etc.
Her work showed a great improvement last year.
I have great respect for her ideas.


3. big with countable abstract nouns
Big can be used with countable abstract nouns in an informal style. Large is not normally used with abstract nouns.
You're making a big mistake. (not a large mistake)
Big is not used with uncountable abstract nouns (except in a few fixed expressions like big business or big trouble).
His work shows great intelligence. (not big intelligence)

4. uncountable concrete nouns
With these, none of these three words is usual.
You've got a lot of luggage. (not big/large/great luggage)
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Laura C



Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 211
Location: Saitama

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone. Esp Glenski -- Practical English Usage looks like a good book to have. We now both have a good grip on the differences between big and large!

Thanks again all,

L
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