Job Discussion Forums

[Coolguy123]

So, I got the CELTA awhile back before teaching, and I keep asking myself how to apply what I learned, and what the purpose of the CELTA is supposed to be. Anyone have any points?

-Is the CELTA supposed to make someone into a teacher? Or is it supposed to provide tools for teachers to use, or make them aware of the latest teaching techniques/research?

-How do you apply the techniques when you're actually teaching? At the school I'm at, we don't actually have to plan the lessons (they already have an established curriculum). I use some of the things I learned, but sometimes it's difficult to adapt the CELTA stuff to these lessons that are structured differently.

Any tips? I don't want to forget what I learned or feel like doing the CELTA wasn't worthwhile.

[Shroob]

The purpose of the CELTA (in my opinion) is to train people to be able to teach a certain way to a certain standard. Some people interpret this differently and disagree with what is taught/expected of the trainees (see the recent discussion thread on this board) but you should be aware of the various teaching styles.

It depends on how you define 'teacher', I've met many who use this title but I'd question their use of it.... The CELTA is an entry level certificate, it's up to the person to use what they learnt and built upon it. It's not the end of the road. Yes, when you pass the course you should be of a certain standard, but will need guidance/further training/experience.

If your employer doesn't allow the 'CELTA style' you face a difficult choice, it's the employer that's paying you but at the same time teachers should have some autonomy in their classroom. What is it about your job that doesn't allow you to teach the way you want to? Perhaps some here could suggest some ideas.

[mk87]

The point of a CELTA is surely to be standardised to an international standard. Thus in theory giving you a basic level of 'proficiency'. I guess thats why it is often a requirement to get a job. It indicates that person X has completed the course.

In terms of more practically I guess that depends. I think it gives you some tools to put into your toolbox. I took the CELTA 3 years ago, do I use what I learnt every lesson - yes kind of, because it quite clearly works in some cases. I fail to see how you could disagree with some of the more fundamental ideas presented in it.

Do I do everything I was doing while I was training for a CELTA - no...It would be impossible to. Best off to think of it as an entry level qualification aimed at maintaining a basic quality control over some of the ESL world. I dont quite understand how your employer could "stop you teaching in the CELTA" way though?

[Coolguy123]

The school is fine. I guess it was a concern - I do use the tools I used in the CELTA during the teaching. The lessons seem more conversation focused though, and it's pretty sparse on the grammar which has already been taught to students.

I guess it just seems a bit easy compared to the CELTA!

[santi84]

I don't have a CELTA. I have a degree with a concentration in TESL and a post-graduate certificate in TESL.

I would wager CELTA is just like my own education. It's a background to help you get started on the real teacher training, which is the experience in the classroom. It's the tools you need to learn how to do the job properly.

I think we've all seen some of those awful Youtube videos of teachers abroad who have zero teacher training - CELTA and other TESL certificates are meant to give you a very basic guideline in lesson planning, classroom management, whatever, in order to avoid that. You'll probably still have a few of those bad classes to start, but you'll be far better off in the long-term if you really put your TESL education (constructing tests, creating exercises, FEEDBACK!) to good use.

[Coolguy123]

Yeah I think one of the issues is there is very little oversight at my school. So, I've started reading harmer's "How to Teach English", to hopefully get some more teaching knowledge in outside of class. Any other advice, please let met know.

[santi84]

Off the top of my head (or copy and pasted from my handy list!), I would recommend the following for oral-based classes.

Avery, P., Teaching American English Pronunciation
Celce-Murcia, M., Teaching Pronunciation
Thronbury, S., How to Teaching Speaking
Ur, P., Teaching Listening Comprehension

[spiral78]

I'd say the core value of a CELTA (or equivalent course) in my opinion is to help new teachers make the 180-degree turn from teacher presentation/lecture mode to facilitating active student participation into lessons.

The whole concept is outside the prior experience of many new teachers, and while it sounds simple, in practice it can take a whole range of different techniques to accomplish. The courses at least give a few starter tools for creating what is now accepted to be a reasonably effective overall approach to language teaching and learning - involving the learner actively in the process.

That's also why the practice teaching component is so important - it's not enough just to read about/talk about engaging learners through lessons - people need to really try it out to see how things work before being certified, in my opinion.

[fluffyhamster]

[Coolguy123]

[mk87]

Maybe its just your style of writing fluffy, but I haven't actually been able to work out a lot of what you mean about the CELTA. Any chance of a basic, unflowery breakdown of what you mean? As someone who is interested in education and educational praxis, I think you might have something interestin to say, but I still cant really understand what you are trying to get at?

[fluffyhamster]

Well, look at Spiral's starting assumption again - that teachers will necessarily lecture unless trained otherwise. Now that may all be well and true, but it made me wonder: are they even in any position to lecture let alone teach? That is, how principled is the resulting thinking? But perhaps you guys see no problem with relentlessly "practical" training.

As for flowery, it is hard to say when no effort appears to have been expended beyond tossing out the adjective (esp on the other thread in which it was used), but offhand dismissal obviously has its uses.

[spiral78]

I and some others here have been actively working with teacher training courses for years. Fluffy, by his own admission, took what may have been a substandard course some years back and has certainly formed some very strong (if somewhat obscure) opinions based on this.

[fluffyhamster]

Spiral: the second link you've posted is to a thread that appears to be about the purpose of teaching, that develops into a discussion regarding proselytizing about whatever (non-linguistic) issues to students. That to me is a quite different matter to training teachers in largely linguistic or sociolinguistic stuff, plus I didn't even comment in that thread. Oh, and it's in the Saudi forum, to top things off! Hardly General Discussion.

So, if you are going to "quote" me, the least you could do is not put other's words into my mouth, especially when there are a number of linguistic points I've raised here and there that you've plainly chosen to ignore (like they hold no relevance to LT and TT! ).

Since that substandard CTEFLA (though it was ameliorated by the presence of an intelligent but quiet assistant trainer who went on to author a few reasonable introductory tomes, and head a department), I calculate I've spent thousands on linguistics and ELT-related books and resources - more than many a dip or MA costs. My choices may have been somewhat selective, but frankly I don't need the help of the training establishment in identifying good reading and exemplars (again, that whole Present Perfect~Richards thang).

Returning to the OP's question, the purpose of a cert is or should be among other things to

1) teach trainees the linguistic basics (grammar, phonetics, pragmatics, discourse etc etc) - LT as Applied Linguistics, which is what it is at heart, whether we like it or not

2) impart explicit techniques where none suggest themselves in 1)

3) show trainees how to select and contextualize language according to a variety of factors, foremost of which would be authenticity

4) situate all the above in the context of the history of ELT, which is far longer than certs have been involved

5) help the successful trainee gain employment


The CELTA most clearly succeeds in 5, regardless of the variation in quality among training centers in the other things.

[spiral78]