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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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 Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Yep, followed the bland American kind.
You can find better coffee if you look. In Kobe and Kyoto for example.
Probably at better kisaten. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| mitsui wrote: |
Yep, followed the bland American kind.
You can find better coffee if you look. In Kobe and Kyoto for example.
Probably at better kisaten. |
That they did. Like our beer. Seems like Japanese beer is just 5 different takes on Budweiser.
Most coffee shops still have Key Coffee, which is like Folgers/the pre ground what not.
I have found a couple places that do their own roasting, and serve serious coffee. They seem the exception for now. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| I think the Japanese have a pretty good palate, but what is up with their coffee? It only now is getting decent. Did they just follow the bland American coffee of the post war era, or something? |
It's a mass market product, catering to mass market tastes. Market research in America shows that, while most people claim to prefer strong, rich coffee (because it's what the connoisseurs like), most people actually prefer weak, milky coffee. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| I think the Japanese have a pretty good palate, but what is up with their coffee? It only now is getting decent. Did they just follow the bland American coffee of the post war era, or something? |
It's a mass market product, catering to mass market tastes. Market research in America shows that, while most people claim to prefer strong, rich coffee (because it's what the connoisseurs like), most people actually prefer weak, milky coffee. |
True, that is how McDs got popular. Lowest common denominator of taste/quality, that doesn't out right offend.
But Georgia coffee and it's ilk are pretty bad. I mean, they did it on purpose bad. |
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Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Like I tell people, I'd rather have a MacDonald's coffee in Starbucks. If it's to go, MacDonald's is fine. Otherwise, I can't stand the smell in MacDonald's. The grease and the smoke make MacDonald's a terrible place to study or read while having a coffee, not to mention all of the idiot high school kids that hang around there.
I really like a Starbucks in Kanda, just above the Ginza Line entrance / exit. Mainly business people, long tables with electrical outlets to charge androids or computers.
But the coffee is still expensive and terrible tasting. |
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Black_Beer_Man
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 453
Location: Yokohama
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| teenoso wrote: |
| Black_Beer_Man wrote: |
Another thing the Japanese share with the French is the fact that both countries' cultures dominated their respective regions at one time, but today do not.
French was the language of aristocrats in the 19th century spoken by the Royal Family in England. The Japanese had military dominance in its area.
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well... not really
Japan may have had military adventures in East Asia from about 1895, but was only dominant for about 10 years (roughly 1935-45) , so this hardly counts as being the significant regional power.
Culturally Japan was never dominant (and in fact sometimes regards itself as culturally overwhelmed by China).
French was the royal and aristocratic language ater the Norman Conquest (1066) in England , but certainly not in C19th England, especially after the Napoleonic Wars . Queen Victoria's husband was German. |
Japan was dominant for only 10 years? Koreans told me that Japan had occupied their country for 50 years (from the end of the 19th century until the end of WWII.) They also occupied Taiwan and Philippines (but I am not sure for how long). Taiwan must have been long because I have heard that some older Taiwanese can speak Japanese. |
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Black_Beer_Man
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 453
Location: Yokohama
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| mitsui wrote: |
Yep, followed the bland American kind.
You can find better coffee if you look. In Kobe and Kyoto for example.
Probably at better kisaten. |
That they did. Like our beer. Seems like Japanese beer is just 5 different takes on Budweiser.
Most coffee shops still have Key Coffee, which is like Folgers/the pre ground what not.
I have found a couple places that do their own roasting, and serve serious coffee. They seem the exception for now. |
I think the Japanese have a good coffee culture. UCC and Key coffee sell good quality beans and one positive indicator that they're serious about coffee is that they never got into flavor coffee like hazelnut and caramel coffees. Coffee purists look down on these coffees.
However, when you talk about the average person here, I feel that the situation is much the same in most other countries. They just want a cheap caffeine fix and the cheaper coffee shops deliver something watered down and bland.
What is disappointing me nowadays is that I've seen ads on Japanese TV promoting instant coffee with sugar and creamer in single serving tube shaped foil packets. These are enormously popular in Korea and I had to tolerate them when I taught there. Ultra sweet and too mild. Yulk!  |
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Coolguy123
Joined: 10 Apr 2013
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Japanese actually invented a lot of cool coffee stuff. They invented siphon coffee (I pretty unique method of brewing coffee that is catching on in boutique coffee shops and stuff in the US). Also Japan produces a lot of really high-quality coffee gear. I remember visiting a coffee "boutique" in the U.S. that seemed to use a lot of Japanese gear.
Check out this article -
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/magazine/13Food-t-000.html
In Taiwan, most of the coffee shops I go to seem to advertise Japanese coffee inventions (coffee machines, espresso machine, etc.), and Japanese coffee seems to be sort of a prestige thing.
There's a lot of focus/criticism on the canned coffee stuff (I don't think it's that bad, probably better than American canned coffee). The coffee at ordinary coffee shops in Japan seems to be pretty bad. However, perhaps if you sought out high-end coffee places you would find people who are quite good at coffee brewing techniques (trying to perfect/master things as Japanese-style). |
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Black_Beer_Man
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 453
Location: Yokohama
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| Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:23 am Post subject: |
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The Japanese certainly see good coffee as a money maker. UCC coffee company owns a plantation in Hawaii and I had heard that Japan buys the lion's share of Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee (some blame them for pushing up the price on it).
Personally, I think Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee is all hype. I bought 200 grams from Doutor and I was not impressed with the taste. I prefer Colombian coffee. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| You don't see them because they're not going to Europe or America. Quite sensibly, they're investing where the growth is: Asia. E.g. Lawson & Uniqlo have invested in China. |
Loads of Seven-Elevens here in Chengdu, Sichuan, PRC. They seem to be pretty popular among the locals. Also related, there are a few Ito Yokado department stores here in Chengdu--also quite popular here.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Black_Beer_Man wrote: |
I think the Japanese have a good coffee culture. UCC and Key coffee sell good quality beans and one positive indicator that they're serious about coffee is that they never got into flavor coffee like hazelnut and caramel coffees. Coffee purists look down on these coffees.
However, when you talk about the average person here, I feel that the situation is much the same in most other countries. They just want a cheap caffeine fix and the cheaper coffee shops deliver something watered down and bland.
What is disappointing me nowadays is that I've seen ads on Japanese TV promoting instant coffee with sugar and creamer in single serving tube shaped foil packets. These are enormously popular in Korea and I had to tolerate them when I taught there. Ultra sweet and too mild. Yulk! |
I just don't see the good coffee. I mean it isn't widely available. It is still specialty at this point. I know a good coffee shop in Chiba city, but outside that, you really don't see anything decent.
I agree, people in general like cheap stuff. I can not stand that Korean instant coffee. It is just cheap overly sweet coffee. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| fat_chris wrote: |
| Pitarou wrote: |
| You don't see them because they're not going to Europe or America. Quite sensibly, they're investing where the growth is: Asia. E.g. Lawson & Uniqlo have invested in China. |
Loads of Seven-Elevens here in Chengdu, Sichuan, PRC. They seem to be pretty popular among the locals. Also related, there are a few Ito Yokado department stores here in Chengdu--also quite popular here.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
7-11 knows what is up. Also Yokado is a 7-11 subsidiary. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Black_Beer_Man wrote: |
The Japanese certainly see good coffee as a money maker. UCC coffee company owns a plantation in Hawaii and I had heard that Japan buys the lion's share of Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee (some blame them for pushing up the price on it).
Personally, I think Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee is all hype. I bought 200 grams from Doutor and I was not impressed with the taste. I prefer Colombian coffee. |
JBM is def meh. I think because it has a prestige name, and Japanese love that stuff. ie overpaying for something that has slightly better than average quality. Just look at how Japanese buy brand name stuff like fiends. I had some as well. Was not impressed. Esp since it was 5000yen for 200g or so.
UCC is ok. I wouldn't say that is has anything that stands out though. UCC is smart though, and expanding and holding overseas is what every intelligently run Japanese business should be aiming for. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| 7-11 knows what is up. Also Yokado is a 7-11 subsidiary. |
Yep.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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Coolguy123
Joined: 10 Apr 2013
Posts: 132
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