| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
|
 Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:34 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| mw182006 wrote: |
Several people in this very thread have proven you wrong already. My colleague is also in his 6th or 7th year at my uni. Why can't you accept that your situation doesn't/won't apply to every person that enters China? |
Because that's simply crazy talk. China is a nation of LAWS. These LAWS are applied evenly across the board. There are NO EXCEPTIONS. This is LAW we are talking about!!!!!
Take it from Bruce. His word is law 'round these parts and if it happened to him, it sure as well will happen to everyone. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
BruceLeeWannaBe
Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 210
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| muffintop wrote: |
| mw182006 wrote: |
Several people in this very thread have proven you wrong already. My colleague is also in his 6th or 7th year at my uni. Why can't you accept that your situation doesn't/won't apply to every person that enters China? |
Because that's simply crazy talk. China is a nation of LAWS. These LAWS are applied evenly across the board. There are NO EXCEPTIONS. This is LAW we are talking about!!!!!
Take it from Bruce. His word is law 'round these parts and if it happened to him, it sure as well will happen to everyone. |
Exactly  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alien1982
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 59
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BruceLeeWannaBe wrote: |
| muffintop wrote: |
| mw182006 wrote: |
Several people in this very thread have proven you wrong already. My colleague is also in his 6th or 7th year at my uni. Why can't you accept that your situation doesn't/won't apply to every person that enters China? |
Because that's simply crazy talk. China is a nation of LAWS. These LAWS are applied evenly across the board. There are NO EXCEPTIONS. This is LAW we are talking about!!!!!
Take it from Bruce. His word is law 'round these parts and if it happened to him, it sure as well will happen to everyone. |
Exactly |
These people don't umderstand what you've been through. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Alien1982 wrote: |
| These people don't umderstand what you've been through. |
these people certainly do indeed umderstand what bro bruce has gone through.
these people also umderstand "the law" as enforced within a specific police
substation within a specific district within a specific city within a specific region
within a specific province has no bearing on "the law" as interpreted within
a specific police substation 200 meters away, nor for that matter on the
interpretation of "the law" within that very same specific substation after
the officers return to simulated work after their noon sleepy-time break.
明白兄弟？ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Understand?
After so many years here, understanding is easy. All you need to do is to understand that tomorrow is a different day than today, so the 'rules' will be different.
My town is in a different province to your town - so the rules will be different.
Seriously? The rules and laws as laid down by central government are regularly either ignored at the provincial level, or interpreted in a way that suits their particular purposes.
'Rules' can even be interpreted differently between police stations in the same town.
The real 'rule' is actually very simple. The real 'rule' is whatever is applied by the authorities in your location. You don't really have any choice in this. These are the people who apply the 'rules', so you have to go with it. Argue with them, and you've lost. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The real 'rule' is actually very simple. |
Implication and interpretations is the difficult aspect of law. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fanyi
Joined: 01 Nov 2011
Posts: 47
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:09 pm Post subject: RE |
|
|
| Worked in 2011 for recruiter, and was under the impression at the time that Sichuan is one of the biggest (maybe the only?) enforcers of the 5 year rule. So this might be real in Sichuan, but there should be lots of places around the country where you'd be fine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BruceLeeWannaBe
Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 210
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mike w wrote: |
Understand?
After so many years here, understanding is easy. All you need to do is to understand that tomorrow is a different day than today, so the 'rules' will be different.
My town is in a different province to your town - so the rules will be different.
Seriously? The rules and laws as laid down by central government are regularly either ignored at the provincial level, or interpreted in a way that suits their particular purposes.
'Rules' can even be interpreted differently between police stations in the same town.
The real 'rule' is actually very simple. The real 'rule' is whatever is applied by the authorities in your location. You don't really have any choice in this. These are the people who apply the 'rules', so you have to go with it. Argue with them, and you've lost. |
Well when they set the rules the way they did in the area I was applying to, I lost anyway. Because they would just ask for one thing at a time. Two weeks later, ask for aomething else. And they just tell you one thing at a time every few weeks. Then at one point the process had to start all over again. Eventually I gave up. Because it was too long. But i guess I have no choice. If the officials want to make things this hard, and not even provide a checklist of what they require. And the steps to accomplishing each task. But I'm not the one who makes the rules. If you try to argue that they should provide a checklist and tell your company all at once every single thing you need to provide, then yes you've lost. They choose to ask for one thing at a time and they purposely prolong it. I don't like it, but I guess that's the rules. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| But I'm not the one who makes the rules. If you try to argue that they should provide a checklist and tell your company all at once every single thing you need to provide, then yes you've lost. They choose to ask for one thing at a time and they purposely prolong it. I don't like it, but I guess that's the rules. |
A well-learned lesson my friend. Good luck with whatever you are trying to accomplish. Go with the flow, and grit your teeth and bear it. It only happens once a year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BruceLeeWannaBe
Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 210
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mike w wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But I'm not the one who makes the rules. If you try to argue that they should provide a checklist and tell your company all at once every single thing you need to provide, then yes you've lost. They choose to ask for one thing at a time and they purposely prolong it. I don't like it, but I guess that's the rules. |
A well-learned lesson my friend. Good luck with whatever you are trying to accomplish. Go with the flow, and grit your teeth and bear it. It only happens once a year. |
The only thing is, why was it so inconvenient for them to just provide a checklist for my company to access and therefore save me alot of time. I mean, my company wanted me in late august and we started the procedure in late June. Had the expert bureau just gave ALl the requirements to my company, step by step, I could've got things done ALOT sooner.
Rather than having to wait two weeks to find out what the next thing is. Then three weeks later they ask for so ething else. Then 5 weeks later they can't find records of my previous teaching experience. Then once i do get the necessary documents, they start everything all over again. And then 6 weeks later, they make a big deal out of my previous z visas. They wanted to see them.
All these things they needed. They should've just told my company all this and provided just a simple checklist of every single thing they need. And how they need it.
Lesson well learned? This was something I was going through for 6 MONTHS. And maybe that's the new rule. That it has to be a 6 month process. The least they could do is just say so right from the beginning. Do you know how frusterating it is when in the middle of all this you think that you finally provided the last thing they needed. And then you find out a few weeks later that oh... Now i need to provide something else. And the last thing they asked for isn't necessarily the last thing they need. And then you be ome unsure as to how long this is gonna take. Like it wasn't frusterating enough when I purchased my airline ticket for October because by mid september I thought I was that close. And I couldn't get a refund. But hey. That's the rules.
In China, the rules are that you have to wait weeks on end becore you can find out what the next thing is. Which means you have to wait weeks on end to find out if the last thing you provided was the last thing they needed.
Making the rules transparent, and being professional in a bureaucratic environment. That's a western idea. A well learned lesson my friend. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alien1982
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Posts: 59
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wonder if people such as mike w got to China roughly around... Let's say last March? If so, people like him didn't have to go through all this. Because the new laws and everything came in while he was already there. So of course he hasn't had to jump through all these hoops. If his employer had gotten him a tourist visa on the day his Z visa expired, he'd have to go all the way back to his home country to get a new Z visa. And that's when all the bureaucratic nonsense Bruce is experiencing will come into place.
I am also thinking about cancelling my plans for China. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I wonder if people such as mike w got to China roughly around... Let's say last March? |
March? Yes. Last March? No. March 1996.   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Had the expert bureau just gave ALl the requirements to my company, step by step, I could've got things done ALOT sooner. |
This is a country where if you wanna know, you gotta ask.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BruceLeeWannaBe
Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 210
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| NoBillyNO wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Had the expert bureau just gave ALl the requirements to my company, step by step, I could've got things done ALOT sooner. |
This is a country where if you wanna know, you gotta ask.... |
I did ask. I kept asking my company if there was anything else after the last thing they were told I needed. And then my company would tell me that this was all they knew. And when I asked them to contact the foreign expert bureau and ask them what the next step was, so that they wouldn't have to wait weeks to find out. Then they would try and they told my company they had to wait a couple weeks for an answer. We tried asking. And they would never give us a direct answer.
Then I came on here. Posted my status. And I explained what my progress was so far. And I asked specifically if there was anyone in this time consuming rat race who happens to be four weeks or so ahead of me. Someone who knows what the next step is after the last thing I was told to provide. And nobody could tell me.
So don't you accuse me of not asking. I did ask. And nobody had any answers. I tried the search function. I got nothing. I tried calling the consulate. They coulldn't tell me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's about asking the right people.
The only people who can give you the correct answers are the people who are dealing with your documentation. They will decide what they want, and when they want it. You are at their mercy.
Western ideas invariably don't work in China. Chinese ideas often don't work either, or rather vary from location to location.
Nobody on this forum can give you a hard and fast answer. Only the people you are dealing with. And even then, you can go the office in the morning and they will tell you what documentation they want. Then you can go back to the same office in the afternoon, ask a different person, and get a different answer.
Get used to it my friend, it won't change in your lifetime or in mine.
TIC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
