|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
|
 Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:05 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| I don't think this is at all a realistic salary in Beijing. Even with "free" rent, 4,300 or 5,000 or 6,000 RMB just won't cut it in BJ. |
I have to agree with this, because...
| Quote: |
He's done the 'smaller' cities at higher salaries but access to concerts, exhibitions etc is a big plus. After 10 years you've had your fill of pirate DVDs and other stuff.
He is not alone in preferring BJ for the culture |
I understand and respect that. Agreed. Heck, even my beloved Chengdu is going to get old soon and I am going to have to soon move on, one reason being that it can feel so limited/limiting here at times (although I am still discovering lots of new, great stuff here, so wait!).
However, all of those great offerings from the Northern Capital cost a fair bit of money which will stretch that 4,300 to the limit.
I can understand spouses of well-to-do expats and (semi-)retired folks signing on for this but those of us with debts back home or who are mid-career and need to sock some money away, 4,300 in the nation's capital isn't going to cut it, even with free housing thrown into the mix.
There has to be something more and a bigger reason for me personally to sign on to such a program at such a paltry rate. Again, it's one thing to offer a low rate, but I do find it cheeky to expect applicants to have an M.A and still not pay them appropriately. I think those with a relevant Master's and a fair bit of experience should be compensated at a much higher rate.
Ah well, T.I.C.
Postscript: when I started out in this racket 15 years ago, I worked for subsistence wages as a Teaching Assistant in three Austrian high schools for two years. It was enough to pay my rent, weekly grocery bill, cell phone bill, and it allowed me to travel extensively around the country as well as go snowboarding or head to Vienna every weekend (I lived about 90 minutes away from the capital). I was thankful for that.
However, it didn't allow me to save and I deferred the payments on my student loans at that time. It was a great experience for me, but I am now past working merely for subsistence wages. I personally need a bit more. It's no longer enough for me to say "but this will allow me to live in and experience a great city!"
To be fair though, to each his or her own, and I can only comment reasonably on my own situation so I have attempted to do so accordingly. Just doing some thinking out loud as I am considering my current and future situations.
Many thanks to all for your patience with my comments.
Warm regards,
fat_chris
Last edited by fat_chris on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:25 am; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Since the OP I have discussed the prestigious BJ uni thing with a friend who knows the scene well. His points:
He's done the 'smaller' cities at higher salaries but access to concerts, exhibitions etc is a big plus. After 10 years you've had your fill of pirate DVDs and other stuff.
Always relate salary to type of teaching. Teaching and marking writing is a lot more onerous because of the non-contact hours you have to put in.
He is not alone in preferring BJ for the culture and this in turn creates competition which in turn keeps salaries low.
Another factor is that 'name' unis attract PhD s who see that type of gig as good CV material that will assist in gaining academic employment back home. This in turn forces salaries of Bachelor's degree holders down.
A Bachelor's degree holder may be an equal or better teacher than a PhD but the uni can't boast about it and that's important in status-ridden China.
In spite of the prestigious 'name' many of these unis run adjunct or associate courses as money spinners. The entry for these is $$, not Gaokao results. Of course over time this waters down the perceived value of the name but aren't Chinese the ultimate short termers?
The ultimate decider for BJ on less than 5K is the free apartment and proximity to the commuter rail. No one could afford to teach on that money and enjoy a decent lifestyle without the free digs. |
This is an insightful post. Many thanks, NS.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| My ex-coworker has a job near the place mention and was offered 9000rmb per month for a 14 hour week. He was also offered an apartment for 3K rmb that was stated as being worth 8Krmb on the market. Our part time people are being paid 200 pounds per month less for the same schedule (of 10 hours per week) of three years ago, by a british university....seems rates and paychecks are falling. part times are making a little over 800 pounds per month and use to, they were paid 1000 pounds per month. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| NoBillyNO wrote: |
| My ex-coworker has a job near the place mention and was offered 9000rmb per month for a 14 hour week. He was also offered an apartment for 3K rmb that was stated as being worth 8Krmb on the market. Our part time people are being paid 200 pounds per month less for the same schedule (of 10 hours per week) of three years ago, by a british university....seems rates and paychecks are falling. part times are making a little over 800 pounds per month and use to, they were paid 1000 pounds per month. |
Oh!
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sinaman
Joined: 23 May 2009
Posts: 85
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well I spend about RMB13,000 because...
I give RMB3,500 to my wife which was her salary before I asked her to quit to take care of our baby (shes 4 months old...my baby, not my wife)
I have two mortgages back home of which I need to top up around RMB2,000 a month.
Rent is RMB3,500 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mw182006
Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 310
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sinaman wrote: |
Well I spend about RMB13,000 because...
I give RMB3,500 to my wife which was her salary before I asked her to quit to take care of our baby (shes 4 months old...my baby, not my wife)
I have two mortgages back home of which I need to top up around RMB2,000 a month.
Rent is RMB3,500 |
LOL SERIOUSLY, WHAT KIND OF JACKA...oh wait, I'm not the condescending type to judge people's financial situations without knowing them whatsoever. Please proceed, governor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sinaman
Joined: 23 May 2009
Posts: 85
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mw182006 wrote: |
| Sinaman wrote: |
Well I spend about RMB13,000 because...
I give RMB3,500 to my wife which was her salary before I asked her to quit to take care of our baby (shes 4 months old...my baby, not my wife)
I have two mortgages back home of which I need to top up around RMB2,000 a month.
Rent is RMB3,500 |
LOL SERIOUSLY, WHAT KIND OF JACKA...oh wait, I'm not the condescending type to judge people's financial situations without knowing them whatsoever. Please proceed, governor. |
spit it out |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think...you missed his point entirely.
With the exception of this bit below..your earlier posts may have come across a bit...douchey.
| Quote: |
| I understand those who are here for travel, etc for a year or two and only want to work a small number of hours, I guess these University jobs make sense, but if you are planning on staying in China for the long term and want to make a life here, I have no idea why they would work for RMB5,000 full time |
I don't entirely comprehend it myself but some with low paying jobs actively defend them and get a tad wonky when others chuckle a little and roll their eyes, others don't care. I don't (usually) get jealous if others make more than I do and I try not to LOL at the ones working more hours and/or earning less .....even if it sometimes makes me scratch my head and wonder what the hell they are thinking.
For example....
Markness said...
| Quote: |
| my buddy in GZ making 10,000RMB a month (not tax free), no housing included which forces him to get a 5000RMB a month apartment and split it with a roomate... and he teaches 35 hours a week and has 5 office hours |
/headscratch /hugeheadscratch
As I said earlier, we all have different needs and all that so we'll accept different things. Our comfort levels are not the same.
If I were living in BJ I would not rule out that Uni gig if I was simply looking for a visa. If I had to guess.....the privates that could come out of that job directly and indirectly would make it worthwhile for some.
One more thing.....
| Quote: |
| I have two mortgages back home of which I need to top up around RMB2,000 a month. |
Where is home? A cave in Afghanistan? Seriously.....TWO mortgages....2kRMB. Interesting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
I don't think this is at all a realistic salary in Beijing. Even with "free" rent, $4,300 or $5,000 or $6,000 RMB just won't cut it in BJ. |
I agree. I work in smaller cities of 2M or less. and manage to get by and save as well. The university free room and utilities is a major help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sinaman
Joined: 23 May 2009
Posts: 85
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| muffintop wrote: |
One more thing.....
| Quote: |
| I have two mortgages back home of which I need to top up around RMB2,000 a month. |
Where is home? A cave in Afghanistan? Seriously.....TWO mortgages....2kRMB. Interesting. |
Australia...
I obviously put my properties to rent while I am not there, and the rent money is also put towards paying the mortgage. The RMB2K is the difference between the rent and what I need to pay on the mortgage every month. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| If I were living in BJ I would not rule out that Uni gig if I was simply looking for a visa. |
This wise one is the way most achieve residence while working at employment/business development that doesn't offer a visa. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Toast
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 428
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
With most universities holding steadfastly to that same 5,000-ish RMB salary they've been offering since 2006, while other benefits decrease (summer pay, flight allowances etc), expenses related to visas (criminal & med checks, required TEFL certs.) increase, and inflation takes a larger and larger chunk out of that 800 buck a month pay I wonder how long it'll be before the average university job here becomes essentially a volunteer gig, with the paltry pay just covering your food and basic daily living costs??
I'd guess around the year 2016 or so.
By 2017 or 2018 it will probably be actually *costing* money to to work in a tertiary position here.
I'm happy to work for free for people who desperately need it, but not for those who drive Audis and own Iphone 5s. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| muffintop wrote: |
| Where is home? A cave in Afghanistan? Seriously.....TWO mortgages....2kRMB. Interesting. |
americaland (outside of new york and san francisco).
grab a house for $70K, put down 20%, take a mortgage for
around $58K. monthly payment = $375
(plenny houses available for under $50k)
rental income = $1000+/month
(minus taxes and repairs and management and and and....) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| choudoufu wrote: |
grab a house for $70K, put down 20%, take a mortgage for
around $58K. monthly payment = $375
(plenny houses available for under $50k)
rental income = $1000+/month
(minus taxes and repairs and management and and and....) |
Houses in Detroit and Cleveland…cheap! YOU BUY NOW!
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Toast wrote: |
With most universities holding steadfastly to that same 5,000-ish RMB salary they've been offering since 2006, while other benefits decrease (summer pay, flight allowances etc), expenses related to visas (criminal & med checks, required TEFL certs.) increase, and inflation takes a larger and larger chunk out of that 800 buck a month pay I wonder how long it'll be before the average university job here becomes essentially a volunteer gig, with the paltry pay just covering your food and basic daily living costs??
I'd guess around the year 2016 or so.
By 2017 or 2018 it will probably be actually *costing* money to to work in a tertiary position here. |
I recently looked into returning to the public service job I left back home about a dozen years ago. What I discovered was that salaries are mired at the same level as when I left while the cost of living has gone up 20% or more. Any pay rise is almost unheard of today. Workplace pensions are disappearing too as companies use the threat of shutting their doors if they don't get their way. Half the working age population no longer has any company pension to look forward to. Any government initiatives to narrow the wealth gap have failed miserably, the rich keep getting richer and the poor are stuck in a hole that's getting deeper, sucking the middle class down with it. So what are people supposed to do? I could go back home and work three or four times the hours I do here and in the end only be slightly better off (maybe). No thanks.
| choudoufu wrote: |
| muffintop wrote: |
| Where is home? A cave in Afghanistan? Seriously.....TWO mortgages....2kRMB. Interesting. |
americaland (outside of new york and san francisco).
grab a house for $70K, put down 20%, take a mortgage for
around $58K. monthly payment = $375
(plenny houses available for under $50k)
rental income = $1000+/month
(minus taxes and repairs and management and and and....) |
As recently as a year ago you could pick up a home in Detroit for about $10,000. Of course the street lights and water have been shut off in those parts of town, before moving in you'd have to replace any copper piping and wiring that's been stolen by scavengers, and of course the police no longer patrol those abandoned neighborhoods any longer because they don't have the manpower. Welcome to Detroit  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
